Ashdown stack (with 2 cabs) or combo?

[LennyPenny]

So I've been reading a LOT about amps and cabs and combos, so much that my head is about to explode...

It comes down to this: I'm planning on buying an amp but I really wouldn't know what to get out of this selection. I play mainly punk and rock, at times some metal but also blues and slap.
What I look for in an amp is simplicity, durability, reliability and an honest straightforward rocking sound.
At first I was set on 410's but then I read in a FAQ thread about the tonal characteristics of 210 + 115 together, which allegedly is more versatile. Now I'm rather drawn to this last option because of the bottom end the 115 will give.

HEADS
-€295 Ashdown MAG300 head: I've read that it's plenty loud and in a way has more value than the MAG600, which is underpowered according so some.
-€338 Ashdown MAG600 head: not much more expensive and double wattage but is it worth it?
-€315 GK backline 600: the ever so popular budget amp on TB.
-€498 GK MB500: a bit over budget but good quality and has a phones out, which may come in handy.

CABS
-€377 Hartke 410 B XL: read a lot of good stuff in the review section.
-€398 Hartke 4.5XL
-€262 MAG410T evoII deep
-€451 ABM410: again over budget but I'll consider it if you guys thinks it's worth it.

-€395 (total) MAG210T + MAG115T

COMBOS
-€535 MAG410 evoII: basically all in one but I don't like the fact that it's not as flexible as a stack. I also read that combos tend to be less powerfull/loud and heavier.
-€398 GK MB115: has phones out...
-€389 MAG115-300 evoII
I kept these last two under consideration because of the possibility to add a 210 later on if I need more power. Is there much difference between a combo + cab or head + cab?

Could you please eliminate any combinations which won't work because of difference in Ohms. You may have noticed that my list contains a lot of Ashdowns, I just like them because they seem simple and have a vintage rock sound.
Other suggestions are more than welcome, though.

My apologies for the truckload of text, I've tried to keep it as straightforward as possible.

Thanks!

[LennyPenny]

I should add that I'm not in a band right now but I do plan on joining/starting one in the near future. Therefore, I was thinking of getting something that could handle (loud) gigs right of the bat.

[RickenBoogie]

Not sure what you read, but a 15 will not give you more "bottom" end over a 210 or 410 based on spkr size, and volume is obtained with multiple spkrs. Also, matching cabs are always a better choice than mixing anything.

[LennyPenny]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Not sure what you read, but a 15 will not give you more "bottom" end over a 210 or 410 based on spkr size, and volume is obtained with multiple spkrs. Also, matching cabs are always a better choice than mixing anything.

I didn't read that a single 15 gives more low end but that a 210 and 115 together have a more rounded sound, whereas a 410 is much clearer and has more attack.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by LennyPenny

I didn't read that a single 15 gives more low end but that a 210 and 115 together have a more rounded sound, whereas a 410 is much clearer and has more attack.

All part of bass folklore, and completely untrue. There are no doubt such combinations that produce a "rounded sound" (whatever that might mean), and 410s with particular clarity and attack, but it is impossible to generalise concerning tone on the basis of speaker diameter. People think 15s are "darker" nd "boomier" because they tend to beam the mids and highs directly out in front with relatively little dispersion -- if you point them at your head, you'll be able to hear these frequencies again. Dispersion of these "directional" frequencies is the only element of your tone that is determined by speaker cone diameter; there are some 20 Thiele-Small parameters, which, when combined with the characteristics of the box in which the speakers are contained (dimensions, ports, etc), are what determines tone.

In general, mixing speaker sizes gives worse outcomes than combining identical cabinets -- you can be lucky, but that's what it's down to. Even cabs with the same size drivers that are otherwise non-identical can cause problems with phasing (peaks and troughs in the sound field due to summation and cancelling of different frequencies).

There is a lot more to be said here, but it has all been said a thousand times before on this forum -- you can almost pick and choose threads at random. Pay attention to Bill Fitzmaurice, greenboy, Passin' Wind, Duke LeJeune, JimmyM, KJung; there are others, but these guys spring to mind.

Enjoy!

[LennyPenny]

Well, after some more pondering, I've narrowed it down to this:
-Ashdown MAG600 with two ABM 210's
-GK MB500: do the above cabs mix well with this head? I really like the portability of it and I'm set on the ABM cabs. GK Neo's look good as well but are out of my price range.

[Sten]

In that price range, have you considered GK 212MBE as a cabinet? 2x12", 500W, 37lbs, 390.- EUR and comes in 8 or 4 ohms:
GALLIEN KRUEGER 212MBE 4OHM - Thomann Belgian Cyberstore

Also, Thomann has great price for the MB212 combo:
GALLIEN KRUEGER MB212 - Thomann Belgian Cyberstore

Regarding cabs, ABM210 and MAG210 are both very nice cabinets for the price (I've played both). Still, they have lower power rating than the 212MBE and weigh almost double. With the 212MBE you could get away with just one cab and may never need the other. MAG300/600 are again not bad heads for the price, but compared to MB-500 are heavy beasts(weight-wise). When you start gigging with a band, the weight suddelnly starts to matter.

So, if you have a really tight budget, I'd get Mag300+MAG210, but if you want a rig that will serve you well even when you start gigging, then go for the MB500+212MBE or MB212 for excellent power per euro ratio with not much more money. You will never run out of power with that setup.

[Sten]

Just to add something, if I could start from scratch, I would buy the MB212 with the price Thomann has for it today (it was over 100 EUR higher last week). One item, 17kg, 500W, 2x12" and less than 600 EUR. No more worries.

[LennyPenny]

I AM on a tight budget but I'd rather spend a bit more on a head that will easily fit in a backpack, especially since I don't have a car. Then again, I'd still have to find a way to move the cab(s) so it wouldn't make that much difference...
Will a single 212 cut it in a typical punk rock band setting (2 guitars, drum, vocals and bass)? That's what I'm looking to play in in the near future.

[Sten]

I have been able to cut with ABM210 even in a metal band with two full tube amps and 4x12" cabinets, but on some very large stages it may not be enugh. I seriously doubt I will ever find a venue, where 500W into 2x12" is not enough (considering larger venues always have PA support).

You can move the 17kg combo without your car with not very big effort IMO. If you need to walk really long distances, get a carry back with shoulder strap for it.

[LennyPenny]

Very large stages aren't a concern ATM, I just want to make sure I'm prepared for medium sized bars and clubs.
Although the MB500 + 212 does give me the flexibilty I'm looking for, it would cost me almost €1000 so I guess he MB212 combo is the way to go: plenty loud (according to you but I'll take your word for it, light, has headphones out for practicing at home and is ridiculously cheap as far as I can tell.

The Ashdown rig is very reasonably priced at Music Store: 338 EUR for the head and 275 for an ABM 210. I do most of my price reference work at Music Store since that's the closest big music store from where I live but they don't have the GK MB212 combo or MBE212. There is a fairly big music store in Belgium, Key Music, but they don't have ANY GK products... So I guess they're not THAT big

Anyway, glad to hear that a single 212 is enough in most situations.
Sound clips on thomann.de are awesome!


EDIT: slight disappointment as I've mixed the two up --> thought the combo was €398 and the cab €595 *doh!*

[dukeisdog]

MB212 does NOT allow an extension cab. MB210 DOES. Maybe that's something for you to think about.

[LennyPenny]

Originally Posted by dukeisdog

MB212 does NOT allow an extension cab. MB210 DOES. Maybe that's something for you to think about.

Thanks for pointing that out!
I even like the 210 better (based on sound clips), although the 212 sounds great as well. 212 will probably be loud enough for what I intend to use it for but it won't hurt to have options.

[BigOldHarry]

Hmmmm

1) I don't like combos. Too inflexable. I prefer heads / cabs.
2) I have an Ashdown head - an ABM500 from 2000 - great head, love it. I can't say much about models I don't know or own (like the MAGs).
3) I have never liked Ashdown cabs. I paired mine with Epifani cabs and love it. A buddy of mine used Bergantino & EA cabs with his ABM500 and also loved it. I would look outside the Ashdown brand for cabs were I you.
4) I'd also look *used*. New is a rip.

Good luck.

[LennyPenny]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

Hmmmm

4) I'd also look *used*. New is a rip.

Good luck.

I would but second hand bass gear is pretty hard to come by in Belgium. If I were to order from thomann.de, it'd be free shipping because it's over €200. I'd be paying a lot of shipping for something that had to come from US.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by LennyPenny

I would but second hand bass gear is pretty hard to come by in Belgium. If I were to order from thomann.de, it'd be free shipping because it's over €200. I'd be paying a lot of shipping for something that had to come from US.

Hmmm... yes, that would bite.

But you do get the pleasure of great beer and excellent food - so there's that...

[LennyPenny]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

But you do get the pleasure of great beer and excellent food - so there's that...

That's only partially true: most typical Belgian dishes are meat-based (I'm vegetarian) and I don't drink alcohol
Still, the chocolate and fries are excellent

To stay on topic, unless I can find an MB500 and/or MBE210 used, I think I'll go with the MB210 for now. If I need more, I can always get an extra 210.

[Sten]

Yes, the MB212 is not expandable. The option is not included since it is 4 ohm configuration (MB210 is 8 ohm and allows for another 8 ohm to be added therefore). I recommended MB212 because it is dirt cheap at the moment IMO (cheaper than MB210 in Thomann).

Regarding Thomann sound samples, you have to understand that a lot of variables (player, instrument, strings, amp, speaker, microphone) effect the end result. If at all possible try to test the gear out beforehand. It's a pity that Musicstore.de does not have these GK amps, since Cologne is only a few hundred kilometers from you I think. I've been there and they have a great selection of amps to try out.

Coming back to Ashdown cabs, I really don't say a single bad word for them. Excellent rock cabinets for dirt cheap. My only grief is, that after lugging 30kg cabinet up a few sets of stairs there's some sign of weakness in my hands that affects my bass playing.

Regarding the inflexibility of combos I agree, especially if you would like to change/upgrade part of your setup. On the other hand I think MB212 would work for me personally in every situation I can imagine at the moment. I am not trying to endorse here, but like I said, if I were to start from scracth myself...

[spaz21387]

throw the hartke lh500 in your list of heads to look it. its 300 us dollars on amazon.com and well worth it i love mine. and it was cheap