AudioKinesis Speaker cabs Part IV: TC112, TC115, and more!

[thudfromafar]

I agree that the market would be very small for "below low B" players. Those few players can always choose a fearful cab. I would concentrate on the designs you already have going (and the ones you're trying to get out there already), but thats just my opinion.

[Bassist30]

130 lbs and a list price over 8400. So far I seen Anthonys Meyers packed up at fodera's some years ago but never saw him play it. carrying a 15 at that weight and price up and down stairs. You need a hard case for a cabinet at that price. They were made as studio monitors. Yes I bet they sound great but.......

[ACB0015]

You know the 99% vs. 1% thing the country is going through with economics in general? The Anthony Jackson/Fodera alliance is the MI equivalent of that. It is an extremely esoteric rabbit hole in a world to which only they belong. My advice is stay out of it.

[Bassist30]

Nothing to do with fodera or anthony jackson. I respect both to the highest level. Basses are incredible and anthony is an amazing bassist. I just said its hard to carry that cab - meyer - to a club. Im sure the meyers were from a tour but I just didnt give it a thought at the time. I hope i didnt get under your skin. Not my intention.

[DukeLeJeune]

Yah, I definitely got the Meyersound cab beat on portability and price! Of course, so does every other bass cab manufacturer...

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

I agree that the market would be very small for "below low B" players. Those few players can always choose a fearful cab. I would concentrate on the designs you already have going (and the ones you're trying to get out there already), but thats just my opinion.

I think Thud summed up what ya'll are telling me here very well. Message received!

Originally Posted by PDGood

"See, honey, I wanted one of these Meyers but remembered you said we need to watch our money, so I only spent a thousand on my new gear."

Ha! I LOVE IT!!

[Joebone]

I have to share some TC115 goodness.

Did an outdoors thing this afternoon - drummer with beefy approach, two guitarists with 2-12 rigs (one a big marshall head, the other running two 1-12 rigs in stereo. Moderate backyard party. Lead guitarist is a fine player, with exceptional good taste on tone/effects (has done guitar tech for Fogerty, Garcia, Slash, Metheny, DiMeola over the years). And this is not my natural territory - I rarely rock out.

My rig - TC115 (wide, foamcore), Aguilar TH500, Sadowsky P/J 5-24 with Sadowsky flats.

Killer, killer results. Drummer could hear bass pretty well, even with amp alongside his shoulder. Lead guitar, without prompting, says "man, that sound was all over, and no matter where I stood, I heard you like a bell." And while this was a pickup group, once I dialed in the right volume blend between my hands and the amp, I had that oh, so cool feeling of helping things cohere into genuine grooves and driving the dynamics of the jam. And let's talk about dynamics - what a pleasure to be able to play soft, without the body or projection or drive falling out of the tone.

One of the reasons I so, so dig Duke's work is that he has given us a cabinet that throws sound through space in a uniform and useful manner. The coverage provided by this cabinet, even outdoors, is unreal.

Viva Duke!

Happy Fourth, all!

[Mike Arnopol]

I've heard Anthony with his Meyer rig. In a club that seats around 50. (55 club in NY with Wayne Krantz and Daphnis Prieto). Was fortunate enough to have an early concert and could catch their last set. UNBELIEVABLE music. But I have to say---I didn't dig the Meyer Sound setup. Of course it was very hifi---but the bass was very legato without much thump and drive. To be honest---that's what I would expext. I saw Anthony when he was using a Stage Accompany setup. Better than Meyer, I think. Dutch company now out of business. Ribbon tweeter crossed over at 1k. Best Pa speaker I've ever heard. But not the best bass speaker. I really don't think that high end pa systems do well for bass. Believe me---I've gotten caught up in using gear of that caliber live---at home it was like "this is the best sound I've ever heard"---on the gig it was like "I'm getting a great sound but it's not taking care of business.
Don't get me wrong--Anthony is still one of my favorite players. I've heard that he's now endorsing Epifani which is why I want him to try the TC115. I really think that it's the best combination of hifi and bass function that I've ever heard.

And I'm glad you're digging the cab Joe!

[Joebone]

To quote Sally (Harry & Sally, U. of Chicago, Nora Ephron passing last week, etc.):

yes...Yes...YES...YES...YES...YES!!!!

It's that good, folks.

Viva Duke, and viva Mike Arnopol for the foamcore versions!

[DukeLeJeune]

Thanks Joe! I'll have what he's having...

And thank you Mike, I'm really kind of blown away by what you said there. If I got it pretty close to right, it's because I had a lot of help along the way, not the least of which was the TalkBass community itself. I read a lot of threads, trying to figure out where the goal posts are. Still learning.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

I've heard Anthony with his Meyer rig. In a club that seats around 50. (55 club in NY with Wayne Krantz and Daphnis Prieto). Was fortunate enough to have an early concert and could catch their last set. UNBELIEVABLE music. But I have to say---I didn't dig the Meyer Sound setup. Of course it was very hifi---but the bass was very legato without much thump and drive. To be honest---that's what I would expext. I saw Anthony when he was using a Stage Accompany setup. Better than Meyer, I think. Dutch company now out of business. Ribbon tweeter crossed over at 1k. Best Pa speaker I've ever heard. But not the best bass speaker. I really don't think that high end pa systems do well for bass. Believe me---I've gotten caught up in using gear of that caliber live---at home it was like "this is the best sound I've ever heard"---on the gig it was like "I'm getting a great sound but it's not taking care of business.
Don't get me wrong--Anthony is still one of my favorite players. I've heard that he's now endorsing Epifani which is why I want him to try the TC115. I really think that it's the best combination of hifi and bass function that I've ever heard.

And I'm glad you're digging the cab Joe!

+1 PA speakers, for the most part, take a LOT of EQ and work to sound good with a bass guitar IMO and IME.

That is why Duke's cabs sound so good IMO. They use 'PA/Studio monitor' quality components, but he tunes and voices them for bass guitar... a bit tighter down low, a bit smoother up top, etc. Very warm sounding. Again, brings to mind more of a studio monitor than the 'PA speaker' type response. To me, that has always been the 'holy grail' of live bass tone... not an over the top low end through top end extension PA speaker tone, but rather a warm, relatively accurate studio monitor tone that had enough balls to actually be pushed in a live setting. Thunderchild!

Anthony has been 'associated' with Epifani for many, many years, but I'm not sure he really plays any of the cabs. Every 5 years or so, you would see a picture of an 'Anthony Jackson' model Epifani cab (usually multi-crossed over, multiple drivers, and super heavy!), but they never have made it to market. Last time I saw Anthony, he was playing a borrowed rig for a concert in Ann Arbor (Bergantino 115 and a power amp and preamp... I believe the big Avalon). Sounded 'good, not great' (although the playing was other-worldly... he was sight reading stuff that I couldn't pull off if I had a month to work on it).

My 'tone target' is not the sound of a bass coming out of a big PA stack live, but rather the sound of a bass in a mix in a well mastered recording. For the most part, those sort of recorded bass parts don't go particularly low, nor extend super high. They slot in a mix and sit above the bass drum and below the cymbals.

Cabs like some of the Bergantino models and Thunderchild put you there quite effortlessly on the gig.

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by MarkA

Thanks, Ken. You still have the Streamliner, I presume?

How do you find that the TH500 and the F500 compare with Jazz basses (or other "two pickup" configurations)? Are both equally quick and articulate? Will both "slam" similarly (if that's a fair expectation of a micro)? Will one run out of steam before the other? This last might not be an issue with the 12" Thunderchild, but I wonder if it could be with the 15" version, which can soak up more watts, even if it is more efficient. If I did pick up a 15", it would be with an eye toward using it as a one cab solution, even for big stuff.

+1

Ken, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how a Jazz Bass pairs with a TH500 + Thunderchild, especially when slapped. I'm considering trading out my Walkabout for a TH500 to accomplish more punch and overall volume with my TC115 for a one-cab does-all solution.

I believe you already praised the F500 + Thunderchild earlier in this thread, not sure if it was specifically using a Jazz tho...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by shrigg

+1

Ken, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how a Jazz Bass pairs with a TH500 + Thunderchild, especially when slapped. I'm considering trading out my Walkabout for a TH500 to accomplish more punch and overall volume with my TC115 for a one-cab does-all solution.

I believe you already praised the F500 + Thunderchild earlier in this thread, not sure if it was specifically using a Jazz tho...

Per your post and MarkA's. The TH500 and F500 both seem to put out the same absolute volume. The F500 is more even and 'neutral' sounding. Even with some significant EQ, it 'sounds like it does'. With a J through the Thunderchild112, it is quite even, accurate, clean and 'mixing board through a studio monitor' type vibe. I dig it... very clean, a bit relaxed all the way around.... wide, smooth, even, not particularly 'punchy' or 'grindy'.

The TH500 is quite a bit more voiced.... a touch more absolute deep bass extension, and a MUCH more present midrange, with more 'warmth/distortion' built in... not 'fuzz', but a bit of grit. It sounds REALLY good with a J.... adds a bit of roughness and grind (just like with the P). Plenty of top end.

The additional 3db of the Thunderchild115 versus the 112 is pretty much equivalent to doubling the power into the TC112 (if the cab could handle it). I would assume that big 15 would be able to take a bit more abuse also wattage-wise. I'd love to hear a Puma900 through that cab. Might just have to spring for one (I've been in discussions with Donovan Bankhead from the FretSpot (new TecAmp dealer). That head is VERY clean... similar to the F500 in a way, but less midrange distortion and a bit more going on down low and especially in the upper treble. I would think that head with a J and the TC115 would be simply stunning, although you would have be be a bit careful with slapping peaks with that sort of RMS wattage.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Believe me---I've gotten caught up in using gear of that caliber live---at home it was like "this is the best sound I've ever heard"---on the gig it was like "I'm getting a great sound but it's not taking care of business.
!

+1
Worked in a studio that went from Urei Time Aligns to Meyers in the middle of an album project

I preferred the tone of the Urei's with just drums and bass solo'd as it just had more rock punch and not as smooth; it actually did not matter that much as I only use the big speakers to determine absolute top and bottom and 90% of the work was done through little Yamaha NS10's back then

Reminiscent of when the early JBL studio monitors gained favor in the 70's/80's over Westlakes as they had a more exagerated bottom and forcefullness

Funny how what can sound killer in your living room can sound wimpy on the gig regardless of amp EQ settings

[PDGood]

+1

The big difference to me is that treble frequencies disappear in volume. Then there's all the different room reflections and stage absorption and low/high ceilings and different building materials.. Number of people present affects sound absorption as well.

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by KJung

Per your post and MarkA's. The TH500 and F500 both seem to put out the same absolute volume. The F500 is more even and 'neutral' sounding. Even with some significant EQ, it 'sounds like it does'. With a J through the Thunderchild112, it is quite even, accurate, clean and 'mixing board through a studio monitor' type vibe. I dig it... very clean, a bit relaxed all the way around.... wide, smooth, even, not particularly 'punchy' or 'grindy'.

The TH500 is quite a bit more voiced.... a touch more absolute deep bass extension, and a MUCH more present midrange, with more 'warmth/distortion' built in... not 'fuzz', but a bit of grit. It sounds REALLY good with a J.... adds a bit of roughness and grind (just like with the P). Plenty of top end.

The additional 3db of the Thunderchild115 versus the 112 is pretty much equivalent to doubling the power into the TC112 (if the cab could handle it). I would assume that big 15 would be able to take a bit more abuse also wattage-wise. I'd love to hear a Puma900 through that cab. Might just have to spring for one (I've been in discussions with Donovan Bankhead from the FretSpot (new TecAmp dealer). That head is VERY clean... similar to the F500 in a way, but less midrange distortion and a bit more going on down low and especially in the upper treble. I would think that head with a J and the TC115 would be simply stunning, although you would have be be a bit careful with slapping peaks with that sort of RMS wattage.

Thanks, Ken, appreciated.

[engedi1]

Ken and others, do you think with the TH500 that damaging the TC115 is a possibility, or are they pretty evenly matched up? Or would you suggest adding a HPF or compressor to help reduce this risk?

[rpsands]

I think you'd have to be trying to damage the TC115 with the TH500. Mine's taken a brutalizing from my SD1200 with no complaints.

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by KJung

Per your post and MarkA's. The TH500 and F500 both seem to put out the same absolute volume. The F500 is more even and 'neutral' sounding. Even with some significant EQ, it 'sounds like it does'. With a J through the Thunderchild112, it is quite even, accurate, clean and 'mixing board through a studio monitor' type vibe. I dig it... very clean, a bit relaxed all the way around.... wide, smooth, even, not particularly 'punchy' or 'grindy'.

The TH500 is quite a bit more voiced.... a touch more absolute deep bass extension, and a MUCH more present midrange, with more 'warmth/distortion' built in... not 'fuzz', but a bit of grit. It sounds REALLY good with a J.... adds a bit of roughness and grind (just like with the P). Plenty of top end.

The additional 3db of the Thunderchild115 versus the 112 is pretty much equivalent to doubling the power into the TC112 (if the cab could handle it). I would assume that big 15 would be able to take a bit more abuse also wattage-wise. I'd love to hear a Puma900 through that cab. Might just have to spring for one (I've been in discussions with Donovan Bankhead from the FretSpot (new TecAmp dealer). That head is VERY clean... similar to the F500 in a way, but less midrange distortion and a bit more going on down low and especially in the upper treble. I would think that head with a J and the TC115 would be simply stunning, although you would have be be a bit careful with slapping peaks with that sort of RMS wattage.

Thank you Ken! Just sold my Walkabout so I'm now frantically amp shopping. I'm 95% of the way to pulling the trigger on a TH500. I'm playing all passive basses: a P, a PJ and once in a while my Eko Modello 995 violin bass. Sounds ideal for everything I'm up to really.

[Basically Bob]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

How does the TC115 sound with your Streamliner?

Just got home from rehearsal. Took the TC115 and drove it, both, with the Streamliner 600 and Shuttle 6.2. Keep in mind that this was only a practice and in room that would be about 20' x 35'. The Streamliner sounded just fine, with no surprises, but I do have to say that the more I play the 6.2, the more I like it. The 6.2 gets the nod for Saturday night's gig.

The TC115 amazes me! Can hardly wait till Saturday night's gig!

[loopee]

Originally Posted by KJung

My experience is similar to yours. LOVE the Streamliner with the Bergantino AE410, which is a bright, punchy, aggressive cab. GREAT yin yang with the Streamliner, resulting in fat, warm, big, tube tone.

However, IMO really didn't work with the Thunderchild. Too much of a good thing. The TH500 is much brighter and much more mid punchy than the Streamliner, but has a nice, fat, vintage type response that really works will to make the Thunderchild sound a bit more like an 'older school' cab with the P.

Would the TH 500 displace the MB LMII for that warmth and vintagy sound?