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  #1  
Old 09-13-2010, 07:08 AM
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Avalon U5 and phantom power?

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I haven't read anywhere how the U5 responds to having phantom power through the XLR from FOH?

can it handle it or will it damage it?
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:08 AM
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no one?
  #3  
Old 09-14-2010, 05:37 AM
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If Avalon doesn't advertise using phantom power then I wouldn't do it. It's self powered anyway so there is really no need.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:40 AM
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No what I'm saying is if I play a venue where say for example they have global phantom power on the desk, will it hurt the U5?

I know it can't run off phantom power although that would be nifty ;-)
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:54 AM
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I'm 99.9% certain it's fine with it - I remember searching for this info before getting mine and doubt I'd have got one if it couldn't take it! It's equally hard trying to find out the maximum voltage before clipping on the instrument input...
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:01 AM
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Thanx Alexclaber

yeah there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of information available from the manufacturers on some of the not so obvious questions
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:30 AM
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The spec says the output is "electronically balanced". Typically that means that the output is derived from a pair of OP-amps. Unless these are capacitively isolated I feel that that the +48V phantom power is dangerous to the unit.

You could get a 600Ω to 600Ω isolating transformer to put in line with the output to remove the phantom power voltage.

Paul
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:36 AM
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I've had the same question about my Groove Tubes Ditto..I have refrained from using it at church as the board is basically (Phantom On or Off globally):/
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  #9  
Old 09-14-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassmanPaul View Post
The spec says the output is "electronically balanced". Typically that means that the output is derived from a pair of OP-amps. Unless these are capacitively isolated I feel that that the +48V phantom power is dangerous to the unit.

You could get a 600Ω to 600Ω isolating transformer to put in line with the output to remove the phantom power voltage.

Paul
oh boy I hope not cause half the time engineers don't even know whether they are running phantom on your line or not...
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Bovril View Post
oh boy I hope not cause half the time engineers don't even know whether they are running phantom on your line or not...
I'm in full agreement! What is the point of equipping a piece of gear with a DI if it can be destroyed by simply plugging into a mixing console? As a user of condenser microphones I have to be cognizant of this all the time. My mixers all have global phantom power so this is a big issue.

Paul
  #11  
Old 09-14-2010, 04:13 PM
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The U5 is a "studio DI" and is NOT intended to handle phantom power. I have one and don't use it in situations where there may be question. I do use it live, but only when I know the situation will be ok (pro PA, pro sound person, and I ALWAYS talk to the sound persons BEFORE I plug it in...). I've heard of others who did use one with phantom power turned on and ended up having to send it back to Avalon for repair. Now you *can* lift the ground, but with no DC blocking caps on the output, you could hit the output transistors pretty hard with 48VDC when you plug in a hot channel. There are cases where it could be harmful, but not always.

The mic/line outputs are "electronically balanced", but it is 100% discrete Class A and does not use opamps or caps in the signal path. Putting 48VDC on the collectors will certainly cause problems. The collectors are held to 0V with a servo (probably opamp-based), but it's unlikely that they can compensate for 48V @ 10-15mA.

I'm in the process of trading my U5 for a GT Brick (one more session with the U5, then the trade deal is done), but I've often thought I would get a 1:1 Jensen line transformer to run in cases where I didn't want to risk phantom power on the output. I have a Radial JDI for that, though...

BTW - the Brick is already transformer-balanced, so there's no need to worry about phantom power on the output! Use it at church and be done with it.

Oh, and many DIs that are intended for studio use do not handle phantom power - at least not well. Both my SWR Bass 350 and my Epifani UL502 DIs sound great, but don't do phantom power (opamp balanced). The only way to block DC is with capacitors in the signal path, which can be detrimental to tone. Not always, but the fewer the better (they can cause phase distortions and other ill-effects). Any "electronically balanced" output (opamp or discrete) will either require DC-blocking caps and other components to bleed the DC off - essentially a filter - or they won't handle phantom power well. Transformer balanced outputs are a different story. I've heard some people rant and rave over how "stupid" it is to NOT use DC-blocking caps. Most of those people only do live work, where it's an issue. Far more studio engineers are worried about tiny details of the signal and chain and therefore, care about if or not there are DC-blocking caps or opamps in a signal path. The U5 is designed for those people, so it caters to their needs.
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