Avatar Cabs - Neo vs Ceramic? (2x12)

[DeliriumTremens]

Which sounds better? Weight isn't really an issue for me, just interested to know if it's worth saving some bucks and getting the ceramic magnet speakers if they sound better. Thanks!

[exmaxima1]

Originally Posted by DeliriumTremens

Which sounds better?
!

It's a bit apples & oranges, but I had an Avatar B210 (ceramic) and now have a B212 Neo. The B210 was in-your-face punchy and really cut through the mix. The B212 goes deeper, but seems much more laid back.
I think if I do it again, I will get a pair of SB112 with ceramic mags. The weight and the tone will be better for me.

[brndn123]

I own two ceramic B212s



I have yet to play through the neo version of this cab. However, from what I've heard from other players and my experience, the ceramic cabs are a bit heavier and are rated higher (500 watts to each speaker according to the official site). Sound wise, these cabs are very honest. They have a very low mid, warm charactistic to them. However, with the adjustable tweeter, its no problem dialing the high-fi slap tone if thats what you are going for.

My advice: if you need more volume, go for the ceramics. Otherwise, the neos will not dissapoint.

[DeliriumTremens]

Thanks for the reples. Might just save some cash and get some more wattage with the ceramics. I'm used to lifting 80lbs or so at work so the extra weight isn't a concern. Not after slap tones, more like grindy rock tones. Will they work well for that?

[dukeisdog]

I use an Avatar 212 with my Peavey Tour 700, and the avatar takes every bit of the 500 watts my head throws at it. I haven't gotten a chance to play the ceramic cabs, but I really love my Neo!

[billfitzmaurice]

The Delta 12LF ceramic driver was originally intended by Eminence as a sub-woofer driver, so it's weak in the mids. The neo 2512 has very good mids, though it still leaves off an octave below where the tweeter kicks in. The 2512 also has higher sensitivity. The power issue is moot, as both have the same xmax.

[DeliriumTremens]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The Delta 12LF ceramic driver was originally intended by Eminence as a sub-woofer driver, so it's weak in the mids. The neo 2512 has very good mids, though it still leaves off an octave below where the tweeter kicks in. The 2512 also has higher sensitivity. The power issue is moot, as both have the same xmax.

Aha, so the Neo is more even across the frequencies? Thanks for the heads up on the power thing too

[will33]

The neo's response rises some as you go up in frequency through the mids, the ceramic delta12lf loses response in the upper mids. Different flavors indeed. The ceramic some would call warm or thick and others would call dark/lacking definition. The neo some would call present or forward and others would call too middy or lacking warmth. It's the subjective, magazine article tone description thing.

The neo would play slightly louder on average with the same input as the ceramic but with a different flavor. May seem louder in a band mix due to increased mid response. It all depends on what your definition of "sounds better" is. Dispersion of those mids will be the same (fairly narrow) in either due to the opposite corner placement of the drivers.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by will33

The neo's response rises some as you go up in frequency through the mids, the ceramic delta12lf loses response in the upper mids. Different flavors indeed. The ceramic some would call warm or thick and others would call dark/lacking definition. The neo some would call present or forward and others would call too middy or lacking warmth.

The advantage to rising midrange response is that it's there if you need/want it, and if you don't you just tame it by cutting EQ, which also reduces system noise and power demand. If you need to use EQ boost to gain mids to compensate for the driver's lack of mids you also boost system noise and increase power draw.

[exmaxima1]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The Delta 12LF ceramic driver was originally intended by Eminence as a sub-woofer driver, so it's weak in the mids. The neo 2512 has very good mids, though it still leaves off an octave below where the tweeter kicks in. The 2512 also has higher sensitivity. The power issue is moot, as both have the same xmax.

If you have the 8 ohm version of the Avatar B212 Neo, you have a pair of 4 ohm drivers wired in series. Having just measured one of the drivers recently, I was shocked to measure Le at 1.6 mH (far more than the Eminence spec on the 8 ohm model). This could mean that there wasn't enough magnet to saturate the top plate, but nonetheless.....the pair of drivers equals about 3.2 mH which really puts the brakes on any highs passing thru. Not sure how the DeltaLF's are wired, but thought they were parallel configured which has less total inductance.

I'm in the process of replacing the horn tweeter with a 6 or 8 inch mid (I'm thinking B&C). I'll let you know if I find anything that works.

[hyp.spec]

I've played/owned both the Ceramic and the Neo versions.

I much prefer the Ceramic ones... they have a much warmer appeal to them. They also feel/sound like they can take a beating much more than the Neo ones can.

And given the price increase with Neo speakers... go Ceramic!