Avatar power requirements, How much do I need?

[fhm555]

Hey folks..hoping for some input so please feel free.

I'm needing something to cover your typical bar sized venue and while my current stuff will do it just fine, the gear and I are both getting up in age, and due to a leg injury in 99 I can no longer handle my Hartke 410XL cab without help. It's as much the bulk as the weight so lighter and smaller for the sake of humping stuff in and out, but I'd be afraid of going with any less volume than I have (SWR Basic 350) and would prefer to have a little more just to be on the safe side.

That said, I'm seeking input on what power levels I'm looking at to get the most out of either an Avatar TB153 or a B210 SB112 combo. The 153 is rated at 450w, the B210 at 500w and the SB112 neo at 250w or the regular magnet at 500W. All are available in 4 or 8 ohm.

I'm thinking 4 ohm 153 as a stand alone or the combo both at 8. Regards power handling, the extra weight of the 500w 112 is no factor if I'd be better off with 2 500w cabs versus one rated at 250 and one at 500. Would I be better off with two smaller amps for the combo? I need to hear your thoughts so please jump in and let them fly.

I'm also interested in clean, useable volume. Can I get as much (or more) from the 210/112 combo as I'm getting from my current rig or will the 153 come closer to what I need in the loud department? Am I completely out in left field on my volume expectations?

I'm OK right now, but it's just a matter of time till I'm caught out in a commitment I can't meet because I can't get my current cab in the frikken truck. My hard stop is mid may at which point I have to act or be hosed, so I'm already eating in to my sooner the better buffer.

I'm especially interested to hear from owners of these cabs as to what you power yours with and how you like the result, or if you have been in a band where they were being used by another member, what did you think?

I'm open to any and all comments folks, but I'm pretty well set on one of the above cab choices, so I'd prefer opinions on what makes a good amp for those choices much more than I am a discussion on why I should go for cab X instead of avatar.

Oh and BTW, for lack of a better term, my brother calls what we are doing Americana. My rig will be the amp(s)/cab(s), a stompbox tuner, and a j bass.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[shawshank72]

Go get yourself a GK MB212.
500 watts 2x12
37lbs
Incredible!
Nough said.

[lbwdog]

I've always believed that the most power (volume) for the money is G-K. Whether you go with a 700RB II at 475w (4 Ohms), or the newer micros at 500w and 4 lbs., they will power any of the speaker rigs you named with plenty to spare.

I'd personally go for the TB153, as I am a believer of the three way, fEarful philosophy.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by shawshank72

...Go get yourself a GK MB212.
500 watts 2x12
37lbs
Incredible!
Nough said...

Sorry...I tried both the MB212 and the MB115 and thought the 115 sounded better in the store so I bought it, only to return it a few days later due to it's decided lack of azz after 3 days of trying to find said bottom. Either are great if you want to play mostly mids and highs but I'm like Spinal Tap, I like big bottoms and the GK 200W combos in MPE just don't have what I want in that department.

[BurningSkies]

If your fight is between the 153 and the SB112/210 route, pick the 153. It will blow away the other setup.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I've always believed that the most power (volume) for the money is G-K. Whether you go with a 700RB II at 475w (4 Ohms), or the newer micros at 500w and 4 lbs., they will power any of the speaker rigs you named with plenty to spare.

I'd personally go for the TB153, as I am a believer of the three way, fEarful philosophy.

If I knew for sure I could handle the 153 the decision would already be made, but I'm not sure it it's going to be much better handling wise than the hartke and really see it as an alternative to the combo if the combo wouldn't deliver the volume I needed to at least match my current rig. I've done some measuring and comparing weights and I think it's slightly taller and more narrow from front to back profile, and right at 20 pounds lighter than the hartke would put the 153 within range of what I could handle on my own if I had to, but it might still be a real chore without some kind of handling equipment (trucks/dolly), where I feel confident the two smaller cabs would be the best solution from a load/unload standpoint, provided of course I could get the volume I need from them.

So for the 210/112 combo I could get by with a single 450 or 500W amp? Wouldn't 2 500W cabs deliver much closer to optimum with 450~500W each? I'd rather have too much headroom than push things and SS amp weights are not really a make or break factor when it comes to transport so I've already decided two amps would not be a deal breaker if that's what I need to get the most from the combo.

My only real experience running multiple cabs has been running two Peavey 215 cabs, but I used a separate amp for each cab and just ran a line out of the amp I plugged in to get signal to the other amp. Other than that it's always been a single cab with a single head so I'm clueless when it comes to running multiple cabs from a single head.

[BurningSkies]

The problem is that your bottleneck is the 112. And that was my problem with the SB112... I could get louder with my other cabs alone than I could by tacking on the SB112 to any of my other cabs. An Avatar 153 should get about as loud as your average 4x10 anyway, and with more power, even louder.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

If your fight is between the 153 and the SB112/210 route, pick the 153. It will blow away the other setup.

I see you like fEARful also.

If I thought I could spec out a 12/6 without screwing it up I'd order the precut box and components today.

I've been reading up on greenboy's stuff and it sounds like the way to go but I'm clueless when it comes to component spec's. I've been reading like mad, but graphs, mathematical formulas and techspeak without sound clips to match are (to me) like trying to describe red or blue to one blind from birth, and my $15 computer speakers are worthless when it comes to making critical sound comparisons.

I'm not worried about asking what would be best to use in the fearful boxes, but after much reading It's apparent there are way too many "best" component combos for someone of my limited technical expertise to navigate. In short there is so much info I get lost trying to make sense of it all. A simple list of components would go a very long way toward making me change my mind about which speakers I would own. I'm talking the electrical portion of the cabinet, not handles, casters, corners, and that kind of stuff.

It's not the gluing and screwing that worries me, it's my inability to make heads or tails of the gigantic body of tech info and opinions on what comprises the best combo of components for the fearful's and my ever approaching deadline which prompted me to go with avatar cabs.

All I have to get straight with the avatar's is the amp(s). If I felt the same about fearful, I'd be a building fool quicker than I could say bye bye avatar, hello speaker hardware here's my order.

[steveksux]

If you want to go light, go with 2 b210s stacked vertically. Handles 1000 watts between the 2, they're matched, unlike the 210/212 combo power wise. The top cab is very close to ear level, you get to really hear what the cab sounds like. No weird phasing issues mixing a 212 with a 210 either. No comb filtering because its a vertical stack, it's a 4x10 in a column, sounds better, easier to move than a 4x10.

Not sure how much the fEarful weighs, but its more than 1 b210 for sure. And carrying 1 b210 at a time is piece of cake, just have to make 2 trips.

The fEarful seems like it would have the flatter response, the b210 would be more scooped, more highs. If you like the SWR sound you might like the b210s better, if you like a flatter response with really nice midrange, probably like the TB153 better. If you can deal with the weight of the TB153. I don't think it weighs all that much, though, with the neo 15. 63 lbs. Depends on how bad the injury is... maybe put some wheels on the bottom of the cab?

Randy

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by fhm555

I see you like fEARful also.

If I thought I could spec out a 12/6 without screwing it up I'd order the precut box and components today.

I've been reading up on greenboy's stuff and it sounds like the way to go but I'm clueless when it comes to component spec's. I've been reading like mad, but graphs, mathematical formulas and techspeak without sound clips to match are (to me) like trying to describe red or blue to one blind from birth, and my $15 computer speakers are worthless when it comes to making critical sound comparisons.

I'm not worried about asking what would be best to use in the fearful boxes, but after much reading It's apparent there are way too many "best" component combos for someone of my limited technical expertise to navigate. In short there is so much info I get lost trying to make sense of it all. A simple list of components would go a very long way toward making me change my mind about which speakers I would own. I'm talking the electrical portion of the cabinet, not handles, casters, corners, and that kind of stuff.

It's not the gluing and screwing that worries me, it's my inability to make heads or tails of the gigantic body of tech info and opinions on what comprises the best combo of components for the fearful's and my ever approaching deadline which prompted me to go with avatar cabs.

All I have to get straight with the avatar's is the amp(s). If I felt the same about fearful, I'd be a building fool quicker than I could say bye bye avatar, hello speaker hardware here's my order.

Pretty much all the guesswork has been done. If you visit the actual fEARful website, you'll see that the box plans are locked down. The crossover plans include the exact components you need, and all of the other hardware has been completely sussed out.

The clarity of these cabs is like having a high wattage professional front end. But for your bass. Hugely loud, super clear and clean and much wider and true to what you put into it than any other setup. In fact, I've been running mine at PA volume at gigs and having the front end brought up to match its volume...and that's without pushing the rig.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by steveksux

...If you want to go light, go with 2 b210s...Depends on how bad the injury is... maybe put some wheels on the bottom of the cab?

Randy

Now I feel silly...I really like the sound of my 410 but the cab is killing me..yet I never once thought to get a set of matching210 cabs. See what happens when you give me too many choices??
I can't carry a heavy cab in front of me if my shins bang against it, and I'm no longer able to hold 80 pounds at arms length long enough to make more than a step or so. Getting it up in a vehicle would not be as big a deal as getting it back down to the ground single handed. Carrying to the side, like a suitcase would be easy enough