Average amp volume to be heard?

Gibbsalot · #1 05-31-2010, 01:26 PM

I will try to make this short...

Markbass SA450, 4OHM 210XST, Lakland 44-02, max volume. Gain is at 40% and volume on amp is about 60-70%. At those volumes I can just barely hear/feel myself over a drummer. Typical?

What volume does everyone else here run at? (As long as you have roughly the same specs I listed)

bongomania · #2 05-31-2010, 01:40 PM

Even if someone had your exact same rig and bass, there are lots of factors that would make such a comparison difficult and maybe even meaningless.
--Different EQ settings
--Different limiter settings
--Any additional pedals, wireless units, etc.
--Different bands (genres, dynamics, audiences, rooms, mixes)
--Loudness and distortion of guitarists
--Guitarists or keyboards stepping into bass note range
--Different taper of pots used in the assembly of the same amp model (this does happen).

You might want to look at the threads about "cutting through the mix".

Rick Auricchio · #3 05-31-2010, 01:41 PM

Since nobody here is using an SPL meter to measure their band volume, all you'll end up with is a poll. How many like that setup, and how many don't. Nothing you can use scientifically.

You only have a 210 cabinet, and a 210 isn't going to get as loud as larger cabs.

As for your gain numbers, they're meaningless. All they do is set the amount of input required to hit max power output.

Have you tried a different bass? Are your pickups too low?

Rick Auricchio · #4 05-31-2010, 01:44 PM

To add to Bongo's list:

- Battery condition for an active bass;
- Playing technique;
- Strings;
- EQ settings on the instrument;

- The drummer's playing style;
- The drummer's cymbals, drums, and sticks;

- The acoustics of the room;
- Where you stand when playing;
- Your ears.

Way too many variables.

Gibbsalot · #5 05-31-2010, 01:46 PM

After posting I realized how many factors could apply. I posted only because I remember after browsing I seemed to come to a conclusion that most basic situations called for under/near 50% amp volume. Was just wondering if I randomly came to this conclusion or if it had some merit....but yes, I agree it is fairly meaningless...dang boredom :-P

Rick Auricchio · #6 05-31-2010, 01:51 PM

Yeah, way too many variables.

On all cabs, you'll eventually reach the point of power compression. Once you get there, the voice coils heat up, which increases impedance. The result is lower amp output. You turn up more, and all you get is hotter voice coils but no more loudness. Eventually the coils burn up from excess heat.

Naturally, a 210 runs out of steam earlier than, say, a 410.

Gibbsalot · #7 05-31-2010, 01:56 PM

Hmm...might save for an extension cab. Just thought I wouldn't need to go that far until at least a guitar was in the mix.

KramerBassFan · #8 05-31-2010, 01:56 PM

Get more speakers.

Then you will not need to worry about every body else's SLP's.

Just get more or, better speakers.

Rick Auricchio · #9 05-31-2010, 02:12 PM

The Eden 210XST cab pairs nicely with their 210XLT, which has more mids. The XST goes deeper, but the mids are what you need to be heard.

Gibbsalot · #10 05-31-2010, 02:46 PM

Yah, I've been really looking into that but I'm just kinda peeved that my current setup semi-fails against just a drummer.

zachoff · #11 05-31-2010, 02:48 PM

With a 210 you'll have to crank it in a rock setting. That's not a whole lot of speaker. Weird that it's a 4 ohm 210... I didn't think anyone really made those.

Anyway, if you double your speaker you'll roughly double your volume so I'd probably trade for a 4 ohm 410 or 215.

BassmanPaul · #12 05-31-2010, 03:31 PM

Problem is that the MarkBass amp has a 4Ω minimum which you are already using. No more speakers can be added to your system without damaging your amp. You are between a rock and a hard place. You could add a second amplifier or a power amp and use your existing amp to drive it.

As all four of my 2x10s are 4Ω that limit was the deal breaker for me when I was looking for a lighter amplifier. I went with the Carvin BX1500.

Paul

**jmattbassplaya** · #13 05-31-2010, 03:42 PM

^^ Yup. Perhaps buy a different 4x10 cab that runs at 4ohms or sell your current 2x10 and buy two 2x10s that run at 8ohms (4ohms together).

**IvanMike** · #14 05-31-2010, 04:16 PM

in the meantime place your cab so the speakers are vertical (one over the other). put it up on something to get it closer to your head. dont boost the lows as much, maybe experiment with boosting some mids. should help a bit.

RickenBoogie · #15 05-31-2010, 04:36 PM

+1, lose the 4 ohm 210, and replace it with either one BIG 4 ohm cab, or two smaller 8 ohm cabs. A 2x12 is a about as small as I'd consider, 410 is better, 215 is awesome, etc.

seamonkey · #16 05-31-2010, 04:51 PM

Crank the mids and turn down the lows.
Bass frequencies eat up a lot of power. Mids are what your ears are more sensitive to.
Add a good midrange cone or horn.

steveksux · #17 05-31-2010, 07:25 PM

The low freqs eat up power, and can easily lead to cone overexcursion and driver failure trying to get really loud, really bassy tones.

For a single 210, you'll have to sacrifice some low end for volutme.

Unless you're running an EA VL-210...

Seriously, your EQ set like a smile could be the reason you are frowning. Set your EQ more like a frown instead, and you could end up smiling....
You'll cut through the mix much better, with more apparent volume. It'll sound like crap when you're playing alone, but sounds better, much clearer in a band context with all the other treble instruments masking your (in comparison) minimal high freq content.

Randy

Gibbsalot · #18 06-25-2010, 01:05 PM

Just adding an update for anyone who comes across this thread. After some more time these things helped me:
Standing cab vertical
Giving time for speakers to break in
Flatwound strings
Giving your drummer moongel!!

hbarcat · #19 06-25-2010, 01:39 PM

I've been using an SPL meter for years as it helps to keep my band consistent during both practices and gigs. Typical levels are 105-110 dB, A weighted, with occasional peaks around 115 dB. In our small practice room, measurements will be fairly consistent at any place in the room because of reflections, while on stage, measurements are usually taken @ 2 meters from the source.

For reference, actual amps and settings are

guitar - 50w Mesa/Boogie tube combo amp 2x10 @ gain 6 master 4
bass - 450w Mesa/Boogie SS head w 1x15 @ gain 6 master 4
vox - 200w power amp to (4) 10" floor monitors @ gain 5 master 8

Hope this helps some.

gillento · #20 06-25-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

The low freqs eat up power, and can easily lead to cone overexcursion and driver failure trying to get really loud, really bassy tones.

For a single 210, you'll have to sacrifice some low end for volutme.

Unless you're running an EA VL-210...

Seriously, your EQ set like a smile could be the reason you are frowning. Set your EQ more like a frown instead, and you could end up smiling....
You'll cut through the mix much better, with more apparent volume. It'll sound like crap when you're playing alone, but sounds better, much clearer in a band context with all the other treble instruments masking your (in comparison) minimal high freq content.

Randy

+1
go easy on the VPF filter!