B string

[Full_Reginald]

Hi there, new to the forum. My brother is the bass player in our church band, and we've been having trouble getting the B-string to sound decent. So many overtones, it sounds an octave higher than it is. He plays an Earnie Ball Music Man 5 string, and right now he's playing through an ampeg 2x10 combo. He wants to buy a new amp, and we've been test-driving a few, and were wondering what you guys have to say. This is what we want the B string to sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjyAnt4-qE

It has a deep meaty sound, but is still accurate and clean, with no muddy overtones.

Any ideas?

[JimmyM]

that dude looks like he's using an swr sm 900 (could be wrong) with two goliath 410's. that would do it

that seems to be the standard gospel big rig these days...solid state or hybrid head into one or two 410's. pretty much every manufacturer offers this, so it's all a matter of preference. i would stay away from bottom of the line cabs, though.

[Jim Carr]

+1

Jimmy Called it.

A good instrument with a 35" scale and new strings would not exactly hurt, either.

[iamdenialNJ]

You could add a 1x15 cab to your ampeg rig.

[Son of Bovril]

+1 to Jimmy

The thing with a B string is that it's fundamental frequency is roughly 31 hz which is below the rolloff of most cabs, especially most 210 cabs. There are 210 cabs that can go that low efficiently, example: Eden XST210, but in most cases to produce a decent low B will require lots of power (watts) and cabs designed to go that low.

A decent 410 would probably help your situation considerably on a budget and as a quick fix, otherwise as jimmy suggested 1000+ SS watts and an 810 should fix the problem if money is not a concern :-)

[BassmanPaul]

Pre/power rig into an Acme would give you all the depth you are looking for.

Paul

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

+1 to Jimmy

The thing with a B string is that it's fundamental frequency is roughly 31 hz which is below the rolloff of most cabs, especially most 210 cabs.

Very few bass cabs of any kind get to 31Hz.

To the OP: if you have a good sound system, the best answer would be to run the bass direct into it (not mic'd), using the 2x10 as a stage monitor only.

If the bass rig won't get help from FOH, then you need more power and more speakers to get that Big B tone. As noted, don't get bottom-of-the line stuff.

[Steve]

There's nothing wrong with the bass.
As has been pointed out the fundamental of the lower notes are LOW.
Psycho-acoustics will allow you to miss them and still perceive it as LOW due to the greater amount of energy being in the first harmonic.
When you start talking about most 210 cabs, (not all) you start getting to place where even the first harmonics are getting the job done and the notes start to sound higher then they are.

In other words, you need more cab. As in lower extension.

But what you're really hearing in that clip is the six or seven grand that bass and rig cost. And whoever did the post production isn't a goofball. They knew what they where doing. I'll bet it didn't sound that tight live.

IMHO

[Mo'Phat]

Originally Posted by Full_Reginald

Hi there, new to the forum. My brother is the bass player in our church band, and we've been having trouble getting the B-string to sound decent. So many overtones, it sounds an octave higher than it is. He plays an Earnie Ball Music Man 5 string, and right now he's playing through an ampeg 2x10 combo. He wants to buy a new amp, and we've been test-driving a few, and were wondering what you guys have to say. This is what we want the B string to sound like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApjyAnt4-qE

It has a deep meaty sound, but is still accurate and clean, with no muddy overtones.

Any ideas?

There's your problem. As others have said, Low B is 31 hz. I highly doubt that the Ampeg goes that low...due to the rolloff.

That being said, other 2x10's will also rolloff, but some drivers and cabinet designs don't rolloff so sharply and have the ability to reproduce the fundamental.

Power is one thing...but efficient cabinet design and frequency response is another. For a church band, you might consider a full-range PA speaker.

Something like the Carvin LS1503 might do a world of good in a church setting.

The suggestion of the Eden was a good one. Genz Benz, Bergantino, and Aguilar are solid choices as well.

[JimmyM]

since you hear those low notes way more from the second harmonic than the fundamental, 31 hz response is neither necessary nor especially desirable, even if you use a 5.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

since you hear those low notes way more from the second harmonic than the fundamental, 31 hz response is neither necessary nor especially desirable, even if you use a 5.

As a guy that spends more than his fair share of the time with BIG PA rigs, has ACME cabs and plays a 5er....

There's a lot of truth in that right there. There's a lot of bad below 50.

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by Mo'Phat

There's your problem. As others have said, Low B is 31 hz. I highly doubt that the Ampeg goes that low...due to the rolloff.

Try an Ampeg 410 HLF cab, goes down to 28 hz. That's what I use (for a church band btw) and the low B sounds fantastic.

[bobcruz]

In my experience, a deep studio-quality low B isn't achievable in most churches due to high ceilings and reflective surfaces that would only give you reverberant mud if your cabinet produces a solid fundamental. If you're fortunate to have lower ceilings, lots of carpet and drapes, padded pews and plenty of people, then you can use a deep cabinet to better effect. My church is the former kind so I deliberately use a very thin-sounding speaker cabinet, the Eden 112XLT.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bobcruz

In my experience, a deep studio-quality low B isn't achievable in most churches due to high ceilings and reflective surfaces that would only give you reverberant mud if your cabinet produces a solid fundamental. If you're fortunate to have lower ceilings, lots of carpet and drapes, padded pews and plenty of people, then you can use a deep cabinet to better effect. My church is the former kind so I deliberately use a very thin-sounding speaker cabinet, the Eden 112XLT.

i agree with this, too.

[canadian*eh]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

that dude looks like he's using an swr sm 900 (could be wrong) with two goliath 410's. that would do it

that seems to be the standard gospel big rig these days...solid state or hybrid head into one or two 410's. pretty much every manufacturer offers this, so it's all a matter of preference. i would stay away from bottom of the line cabs, though.

+1
I did not get My B String to sing like that untell i got my self 2 Goliath 410 cabs and along with 700 watts of GK Power. For the longest time i didn't think i would ever be able to get that Low clean Punchy B String. I can tell you My 210 did not do it mt 410 by it self did not do and my 410/115 setup did it a lil but not like i wanted....810?!!! Now they DID it And was Never so happy in my entire life as i was the Day I pluged into that beast on stage and was asked to take the D.I. Plug out cause it was to Much!!! NOW THAT WAS JOY!!!