B200h set up question

mwatso23utk · #1 03-12-2011, 08:59 PM

Hello all

I'm new to the forums, actually just came across them today but had a simple set up question for a rig I just bought from GC. When I leave the GC store sometimes, I feel a little squeamish that they will stick it to a guy. It's kinda like buying groceries from wal-mart vs mom and pop store.... Catch my drift?

Here is the question. I bought the Acoustic B200h head along with the B115 and B410 because they were both used (barely) and were set up like it was one unit, so I assumed it was meant to run like this. Ask the GC guys and they said it would run it fine.

After some thought, the head is 200watts, one cab is 250, the other is 400. Something seems wrong about this to me. In my head, one cab would get 100 and the other 100 UNLESS I push the head too hard, which I don't want to do.

Could someone explain how this works to me? I looked on a few sites about the overview on the B200h and it says it can push both, but this seems fishy to me. If each one is getting 100w, does that mean they aren't producing half the volume they could? Well 1/2 on 250 and 1/4 on 400.

I've been playing music for 7 years now but the large speaker concept is new to me because I've always played on small amps without heads. I bought this set up because I am now looking to play with a few bands.

Thanks for your time and if I posted this wrong or in the incorrect area I'm sorry.

Hopkins · #2 03-12-2011, 09:10 PM

The head will work fine with cabs that are rated to handle more power than the head can produce. I had both of those cabs, and they really don't work well together. I would at least take the 115 back, but personally I would keep the head and return both cabs and get a better 410.

I had pretty bad luck with Acoustic drivers, I blew drivers in 3 different cabs and an Acoustic combo amp. I don't push them to hard and I don't get stupid with my EQ either.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just sharing my experience and advising you to take advantage of GC's 30 day return policy and look into a better cab.

To your question, some people say you can damage a cab by under powering it. This is a myth, If this were true speakers would suffer damage every time you turned your amp off or your volume down. You can damage your speakers by clipping an under powered amp by trying to get louder than it can safely go. I prefer to have speakers that are rated higher than my amp, but my amp will also get plenty loud without clipping.

GrowlerBox · #3 03-12-2011, 09:27 PM

The thermal rating on the cabinets refers to the power they can supposedly handle before the voice coil dies from exposure. Generally, somewhere around half that is where they'll start to "fart" and sound lousy, and anywhere between there and the thermal rating, they are liable to suffer damage if played there too long.

Assuming both cabinets have the same impedance (presumably 8 ohms), each will receive the same power from the head, but I'm afraid the 410 will shiz all over the 115, and it may well add nothing to your sound but phasing problems (dead and loud spots at certain frequencies in the field radiating out from the front of your rig).

Try it out for sure, you may be lucky and the speakers play well together, but I would also play each cab separately, keep the one you like best and swap the other for a matching cabinet if there are any problems of that sort.

mwatso23utk · #4 03-12-2011, 09:27 PM

So the best situation would be like this?

800watt head going into two 400watt cabs for the best efficiency?

Yes both of the cabs are 8 ohms and the head is 4ohms. I got this set up because I though/ heard 4-10s were good for high sounds and 1-15 was good for lows.

So I should pick which cab I like, get another one, and match a head based on their amps?

Jaco who? · #5 03-12-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwatso23utk

After some thought, the head is 200watts, one cab is 250, the other is 400. Something seems wrong about this to me. In my head, one cab would get 100 and the other 100 UNLESS I push the head too hard, which I don't want to do.

Pay attention to the impedance - which you didn't mention at all -

the power handling of the cabs mean pretty much nothing at all, other than when the voice coils get too hot to work anymore. Assuming your head has a minimum impedance rating of 4Ωs and each 8Ω cab is connected to the head in parallel (which probably about 99 percent are), you are good to go.

GrowlerBox · #6 03-12-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwatso23utk

So the best situation would be like this?

800watt head going into two 400watt cabs for the best efficiency?

Did you read my previous post? The THERMAL ratings on the cabinets have nothing to do with their efficiency or sensitivity.

Hopkins · #7 03-12-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwatso23utk

So the best situation would be like this?

800watt head going into two 400watt cabs for the best efficiency?

Yes both of the cabs are 8 ohms and the head is 4ohms. I got this set up because I though/ heard 4-10s were good for high sounds and 1-15 was good for lows.

So I should pick which cab I like, get another one, and match a head based on their amps?

Speaker size has nothing to do with low frequencies, a 410 can get just as low as a 115. You will be much better off with matching cabs. Like Growler said, you will sometimes get a muddy muted sound and at other frequencies it will get very loud.

Also don't worry about matching watts from the head to the cabs. Just listen to your rig, If it starts farting out back it off. Your 200 watts could very well make those cabs fart out with to much volume and lows boosted.

mwatso23utk · #8 03-12-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Pay attention to the impedance - which you didn't mention at all -

the power handling of the cabs mean pretty much nothing at all, other than when the voice coils get too hot to work anymore. Assuming your head has a minimum impedance rating of 4Ωs and each 8Ω cab is connected to the head in parallel (which probably about 99 percent are), you are good to go.

Yes that is correct on the ohms. I'm new at this sorry lol. So you believe I am fine in this set up?

mwatso23utk · #9 03-12-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopkins

Speaker size has nothing to do with low frequencies, a 410 can get just as low as a 115. You will be much better off with matching cabs. Like Growler said, you will sometimes get a muddy muted sound and at other frequencies it will get very loud.

Also don't worry about matching watts from the head to the cabs. Just listen to your rig, If it starts farting out back it off. Your 200 watts could very well make those cabs fart out with to much volume and lows boosted.

Your suggestion was to return both cabs, keep the head, and get a better 410. Could you explain what you meant by a better 410?

Hopkins · #10 03-12-2011, 09:44 PM

The setup will work fine, as far as compatibility goes, but I don't think you will like the sound with the mixed cabs after you get a little more experience with it.

Quote:

Your suggestion was to return both cabs, keep the head, and get a better 410. Could you explain what you meant by a better 410?

I've had nothing but trouble with Acoustic drivers. I had a B410 that blew a driver at low volume, It was warrantied out at GC. The second cab blew a driver during sound check before a gig, This wasn't at a very high volume and my lows weren't boosted. The B115 I had blew a driver while being used as an extension cab for a 100w combo amp, which was an Acoustic B100. The B100 would fart out at when pushed at all. I wound up getting store credit on the B115, and I got another B410 which I sold for a loss. I pawned the B100 combo amp.

I guess you get what you pay for. I am using GK now and I'm impressed.

Jaco who? · #11 03-12-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwatso23utk

Yes that is correct on the ohms. I'm new at this sorry lol. So you believe I am fine in this set up?

Your fine, but I tend to agree with Hopkins about either getting two of the 1x15s or two of the 4x10s. It's more critical with more wattage than you are dealing with, but matching cabs will respond the same way, your 15" will run out of cone travel before the 4x10 will.

mwatso23utk · #12 03-12-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopkins

The setup will work fine, as far as compatibility goes, but I don't think you will like the sound with the mixed cabs after you get a little more experience with it.

Sorry guys If I get behind or miss something.

If I returned it all tomorrow and started from scratch with the acoustic brand, what would you suggest?

It seems you guys prefer 4-10s, so should I get 2 cabs of 4-10s and keep the b200h head or get a bigger head?

Hopkins · #13 03-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Personally I would keep the head, and get a single 410 of a different brand. There is wrong with mixing brands when it comes to heads and cabs. As long as the Ohms are right it will work fine

In reality you could keep what you have and it will work. Or you can use each cab individually, keep the one you think sounds better and trade the other in for a matching one (this would be a better option)

I'm not telling you that you will absolutely have problems with the cabs you have, but I would recommend using either 2 410s or 2 115s. I wouldn't mix them. The Acoustic cabs may work well for you, other people have had good luck with them. I was just letting you know my personal experience, and what I would do if I were in your shoes.

As for what cab to keep, I don't prefer 410s to 115s or vice-versa. Which ever sounds better to you should be the one you go with

RadioactiveGuy4 · #14 03-12-2011, 11:38 PM

I play a b200h and i have no probs with it. If you do want take your cabs back its not a bad idea as there are far better cabs out there. I use a Peavy 410 and i get great tone with this combo.

But to make it easy on you if you do take the cabs back take your head with you so that you can try out a bunch of diffrent cabs and see how they sound. Then pick the on you can afford with the best sound

SurferJoe46 · #15 03-12-2011, 11:54 PM

I have about ever head/combo/cab that Acoustic makes but the B-200H.

I find that the B-450 is a very good start - and if you keep the B-410 you can have a very nicley matched setup with 6-10s and lots of power.

If you opt to keep the B-200H - which is a very good head - I'd also opt for matching a pair of B-115s or B-410s, but don't mix them for the best sonics.

Personally - the B-450 and a B-115 can work well together - but it will be better with say a B-450 and another B-410 underneath it. I use that combo most of the time and it really kicks some serious gluteus maximus.

I push my 410s and my 115 and/or my B-600H/B-810 pretty hard and have yet to barf a speaker - so you may not either - but I can really get some serious sounds from matching drivers as opposed to mis-matching them. You can feel when a speaker is in trouble long before you kill it IF YOU LISTEN!

mwatso23utk · #16 03-13-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I have about ever head/combo/cab that Acoustic makes but the B-200H.

I find that the B-450 is a very good start - and if you keep the B-410 you can have a very nicley matched setup with 6-10s and lots of power.

If you opt to keep the B-200H - which is a very good head - I'd also opt for matching a pair of B-115s or B-410s, but don't mix them for the best sonics.

Personally - the B-450 and a B-115 can work well together - but it will be better with say a B-450 and another B-410 underneath it. I use that combo most of the time and it really kicks some serious gluteus maximus.

I push my 410s and my 115 and/or my B-600H/B-810 pretty hard and have yet to barf a speaker - so you may not either - but I can really get some serious sounds from matching drivers as opposed to mis-matching them. You can feel when a speaker is in trouble long before you kill it IF YOU LISTEN!

If I was to go with (2) stacked 4-10 cabs (400 watts apiece), would I need a bigger head than my B200h (200 Watt)?

RadioactiveGuy4 · #17 03-13-2011, 12:44 AM

no you dont need a bigger head just plug them in and go.

400watts is the max they can handle so you using a 200watt amp will be just fine

now if your amp was 400watts and your cab was 200watts then you could have some issues

Hopkins · #18 03-13-2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwatso23utk

If I was to go with (2) stacked 4-10 cabs (400 watts apiece), would I need a bigger head than my B200h (200 Watt)?

Are you going to keep asking that until someone tells you that you will need a more powerful head?

Hopkins · #19 03-13-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

You can feel when a speaker is in trouble long before you kill it IF YOU LISTEN!

I blew one at low volume in my apartment, It sounded fine then it just gave up its ghost.

The other two were at a higher volume, the 410 never farted out, it just blew. The 115 was farting a little bit so I backed it off, but it was to late to save it.

SurferJoe46 · #20 03-13-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hopkins

I blew one at low volume in my apartment, It sounded fine then it just gave up its ghost.

The other two were at a higher volume, the 410 never farted out, it just blew. The 115 was farting a little bit so I backed it off, but it was to late to save it.

There's something else going on there - that's too many drivers going bad for just a set of crazy circumstances.

There are issues with the spade connectors on the driver though - I had one drive me crazy until I figured it out.

It was loose and the driver kept cutting in and out and it sounded like I had blown the cones.

I fixed it myself with soldered-on pigtails and no more troubles.

That was in my B-450 and I wasn't going to send it back until I found out what I had done wrong. It turned out I was not at fault and the fix was easy and so cheap it was almost free.