Baer Amplification; Part 2!!

[Chef]

continued from here:
Baer Amplification ML112

[3rdcurve]

Chef, did you end up swapping out the 18 sound in your 12/6 lds cab?

[Chef]

I did.
Faital W6N120

[3rdcurve]

Seems to keep up just fine? Did Don send you a new crossover as well?

[Chef]

It seems to be fine yessir.
I've not changed the crossover yet, and it feels nice so far.

[3rdcurve]

Originally Posted by Chef

It seems to be fine yessir.
I've not changed the crossover yet, and it feels nice so far.

Good to hear, I know you weren't to fond if the 18 Sound. With that being the case, I am confident that the Fatial 6 should have no problem keeping up with Roger's 15. The combo will probably appeal to more people as the mid won't seem quite as present.

I keep procrastinating building a fearful for the sole reason that I think Rogers's 15" cab might be more my flavor.

[R Baer]

"I seriously doubt the Faital midrange is going to be loud enough to keep up with a high sensitivity 15"

Actually, my experience with this mid tells me that although it's rated at 95dB, it actually keeps up quite nicely with woofers in the 97db to 98db range. The woofer in our ML112 is running just about 98dB and I doubt any users of that cab will tell you they wish the mid driver was louder. Cab tuning and crossover design also plays a big part in how the overall woofer/mid balance is perceived. So far, I'm really digging the ML115 a lot.

[CTC564]

I'm seeing an ML-115 in my future

[Flux Jetson]

Wow, over one thousand comments .. gigidy.

[poptart]

Hi all - well I have just had my first shipment of Baer cabinets arrive today in the shop. First impressions - larger than I thought, huge low end, sweet, rounded tone. The high end is not as apparent as with a 1" compression driver and is ideal for those not wanting that sparkling high end and wanting a more traditional tone, ideal for finger style.

I will spend a bit more time with the cabs tomorrow but so far they fit in well against the other high end 1 x 12" cabs I stock from, Bergantino, Vanderkley, Euphonic Audio, Genz Benz and will make choosing a little harder ;-)

Regards

Mark

[R Baer]

Hey Mark,
Glad to hear the cabs made the trip across the pond in good condition and that the cabs will fill a sonic niche not already occupied by your other cabs.
Cheers!

[will33]

Re: the mid sensitivity thing.

To my ear, in my little biamping experiments with homemade stuff, etc. I actually prefer the mid to run just under the woofers by a little bit. Doesn't take much, maybe 2, not more than 3db, but it's just enough to make "bass cab tone". It's not dark or muddy or anything of the sort, still plenty present, plenty clear, it's just not in-your-face. In the end I think it ends up sounding smoother to the ear, even though the line on a chart may look less "flat". Kind of sounds like you took the blanket off an old-school cab, but not enough to sound too "modern".

Remember these are bass cabs, not studio monitors.

My $.02 there.

[will33]

You could go pretty nuts with all sorts of switchable filters and different voicings but a couole do-able options might be a pad switch as suggested that would bring down the output of the entire 6, or, a switchable filter that would just take down some of it's top end response, kill a little of the high treble. Rolling the tone knob back on a bass basically does that, but it might encourage a few more sales for folks who prefered that as a go-to voicing or who might percieve the cab as too bright and always needing "fixing". The topend and higher output from the 6 woukd still be available for those who want it.

More "goodies" there to run up the build cost.


To add: There also may be something to be said for leaving that stuff out and sort of developing "your sound", "sounds like a Baer", instead of trying to be all things to all people.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by will33

You could go pretty nuts with all sorts of switchable filters and different voicings but a couole do-able options might be a pad switch as suggested that would bring down the output of the entire 6, or, a switchable filter that would just take down some of it's top end response, kill a little of the high treble. Rolling the tone knob back on a bass basically does that, but it might encourage a few more sales for folks who prefered that as a go-to voicing or who might percieve the cab as too bright and always needing "fixing". The topend and higher output from the 6 woukd still be available for those who want it.

More "goodies" there to run up the build cost.


To add: There also may be something to be said for leaving that stuff out and sort of developing "your sound", "sounds like a Baer", instead of trying to be all things to all people.

Actually, building cabinets was something I never really planned on. During development of the Valkyrie, I spent a lot of time listening to the preamp through my Beyerdynamic headphones and really fell in love with the sound I was getting. Once we added the power section to the amp and I started playing through the my cabs, I just felt like something was missing. I couldn't hear that upper mid detail and grind I was used to hearing from the headphones. After some discussions with Bill Fitzmaurice, he suggested that I would probably have an easier time getting the sound I was after from a mid loaded design. So, I set out towards building some prototypes and immediately felt I was much closer to achieving the sound I was after. Once I settled on the right woofer from Eminence and tried the Faital mid, I knew that was it, the "Baer sound".

That mid is rated at 95dB, but that number doesn't tell the whole story. There's is a top end peak that reaches higher, plus that driver acts differently once it is crammed into a very small enclosure. Yeah, we could add some more filtering to the crossover, but I really like it where it's at. It's not ruler flat response, by any means, but I feel it works for live bass. I'm able to make most of my tonal changes with the onboard bass controls and right hand placement. As far as the mid being a too bright, I find that rolling off the vintage tone control on my bass a hair, puts the tone right where I want it. Personally, I don't get the concept that the amp has to be dead flat for the player to be happy. EQ is a very useful tool and the best cabs, IMO, are ones that are able to take a little tweak of the EQ and translate those changes onstage. The tone of your rig is always going to be dependent on the room it's in. That's where having a good EQ and cabinet that responds to it comes in handy.

[5StringPocket]

I sat in and played bass for a contemporary music church service last Sunday and brought in a PJ5 bass with Nordstand pickups, my STM900 and an ML112. That combo sounded just right. The mid/bass balance was excellent and it had lots of headroom to spare with a solid, articulate, and warm tone. It sat very well in the mix and was a breeze to move.

I'll be interested in picking up a Valkyrie when they are available. That should be really something though a pair of ML112's. On the upcoming ML115, my preference would be for the 15FH520 woofer. It seems a step above the 15FH500 from the sims I've looked at and from someone who had a chance to hear both.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

I sat in and played bass for a contemporary music church service last Sunday and brought in a PJ5 bass with Nordstand pickups, my STM900 and an ML112. That combo sounded just right. The mid/bass balance was excellent and it had lots of headroom to spare with a solid, articulate, and warm tone. It sat very well in the mix and was a breeze to move.

I'll be interested in picking up a Valkyrie when they are available. That should be really something though a pair of ML112's. On the upcoming ML115, my preference would be for the 15FH520 woofer. It seems a step above the 15FH500 from the sims I've looked at and from someone who had a chance to hear both.

The 15FH520 is currently the driver we have in the working prototype. It's one kick ass driver, for sure.

[Ewo]

Add me to list of folks waitin' on the Valkerie amp, Roger!

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by R Baer

The 15FH520 is currently the driver we have in the working prototype. It's one kick ass driver, for sure.

Wow, that's...an interesting choice. Looking at the charts, I think the W6 would be fine with that.

However, I would be interested to know what you think that woofer offers over your very nice 12" woofer (which really hits a performance sweet spot in my opinion). The 15HF520 ought to extend a little lower but it should only go much louder than your current 12" woofer with bordering on twice as much power. At least by my rough numbers.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Wow, that's...an interesting choice. Looking at the charts, I think the W6 would be fine with that.

However, I would be interested to know what you think that woofer offers over your very nice 12" woofer (which really hits a performance sweet spot in my opinion). The 15HF520 ought to extend a little lower but it should only go much louder than your current 12" woofer with bordering on twice as much power. At least by my rough numbers.

The main thing with the Faital woofers is that they don't exhibit the pronounced upper mid peaks typical of the Eminence woofers. I'm guessing that players who prefer 15's, are looking for a bigger low end and smoother upper mids than you get from the ML112. The 15HF520 fits that sound profile very well. Combined with the mid driver, the cab sounds authoritative down low, very smooth through the mids, but with good articulation and a little bite up top from the mid driver. The sound of a B string is really impressive. Huge and focused with no hint of strain at all. True, it has more power handling capability than is really needed in an 8ohm cab, but the choice was based more on the tone this driver delivers, rather than the specs.

[Mehve]

Had a week of evening performances this week. My ML112 arrived yesterday, so I was able to swap it in for the rental Traynor TC115 that I'd been relying on. I was expecting (and am loving) the much clearer mid-range, but wasn't expecting the bass response to go lower as well! Design truly does trump size where speakers are concerned. I think me and this cab are going to get along just fine.