Baer Amplification; Part 2!! - Page 26

GRoberts · #**501** 12-12-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

I was really on the verge of being afraid that this cabinet might be too upper-mid aggressive from all the demo'ing I've been doing. I don't have any gigs until after the holidays, so was debating on sending this one back. That was BEFORE I turned the thing sideways. The difference when doing this is very substantial to me. I'm sure it wouldn't matter much at all if you were standing 20 feet out in front of it, but a lot of my gigs I'm only 3-4 feet in front of the cabinet, sometimes sitting down which places that 6" driver even closer to your head. Laying the cabinet down horizontal is a pretty huge different IMHO, at least sitting here in my house with it. It's very huge.

So today I kind of started all over again with this cabinet. I introduced myself again, gave a few oohs and ahhs over how nice it looks, and then set my EQ flat and started tweaking from scratch as if I'd never heard it before.

It sounds MUCH better to me on the ground....or is it just breaking in even better such that the lows coming from the 12" driver are catching up to the 6" driver? I don't know, but it sounds WAY better to me like this. EQ adjustments I needed to even it out are much less also.

I'm so wishy washy...

Easy way to tell if it's just the driver breaking in. ...Flip it vertical and listen, then flip it horizontal and tell us what you hear and what you prefer. Cool report Jason!

Eublet · #**502** 12-12-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Easy way to tell if it's just the driver breaking in. ...Flip it vertical and listen, then flip it horizontal and tell us what you hear and what you prefer. Cool report Jason!

I've done that a couple times and notice a big difference still. I think it's breaking in more and sounding much fuller also, but perhaps the combination of getting both of those triangular ports closer to the ground to get more boundary reflection, plus lowering the 6" driver so it's roughly the same distance from your ear as the 12" driver is enough to do the trick. The mids are still very present and it seems I don't have to push the low mids at all to fatten it up that way. Just a little bass boost, and then use the VTC to control everything else. You'd think I would have tried this already, but honestly it never crossed my mind. Tomorrow I'm going to try raising the whole thing up horizontally on a stand or chair as I sometimes have to do in really boomy, low volume places. I might try tilting it back also.

GRoberts · #**503** 12-12-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

I've done that a couple times and notice a big difference still. I think it's breaking in more and sounding much fuller also, but perhaps the combination of getting both of those triangular ports closer to the ground to get more boundary reflection, plus lowering the 6" driver so it's roughly the same distance from your ear as the 12" driver is enough to do the trick. The mids are still very present and it seems I don't have to push the low mids at all to fatten it up that way. Just a little bass boost, and then use the VTC to control everything else. You'd think I would have tried this already, but honestly it never crossed my mind. Tomorrow I'm going to try raising the whole thing up horizontally on a stand or chair as I sometimes have to do in really boomy, low volume places. I might try tilting it back also.

That is very promising! Can you imagine a pair of these horizontally if you like the single cab horizontal so much? Mmmm.

**Chef** · #**504** 12-12-2012, 08:12 PM

I think the answer is "yes."
Both.
The 12" in this cab is one of the few that I think really benefits, audibly, from being played in. The surround is stiff, loosens up with time, and thus allowsfor both a little fuller sound, and a little more output; which, as you've noted "puts the mid driver a little more in relative balance."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

It sounds MUCH better to me on the ground....or is it just breaking in even better such that the lows coming from the 12" driver are catching up to the 6" driver? I don't know, but it sounds WAY better to me like this. EQ adjustments I needed to even it out are much less also.

I'm so wishy washy...

Eublet · #**505** 12-12-2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRoberts

That is very promising! Can you imagine a pair of these horizontally if you like the single cab horizontal so much? Mmmm.

That's a good question, you know...I do wonder. I'm hoping that having two ML112's stacked horizontally would mean you'd have one of those big beefy 12" drivers up higher along with the 6" driver such that it would just sound bigger all the way around. I've never met a pair of 112's that didn't sound better than a single 112 though, so hopefully that would hold true.

5StringPocket · #**506** 12-12-2012, 09:26 PM

That definitely holds true. Two ML112's stacked horizontally sound huge but with those tight controlled lows that punch you in the chest. I think the amp and bass also make a difference with preferred orientation. I like the pair stacked horizontal but a single oriented vertically with a bit more bass boost to fatten it up. For a single 112, that driver can take the juice and deliver a nice fat balanced tone.

R Baer · #**507** 12-12-2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ten

Has anyone mic'd an ML112 for recording in the studio and, if so, any tips on mic placement?

Recording the ML112 would be no different from micing a cabinet with a tweeter. It's all about mic placement. You put the mic where you get a right balance of woofer and mid. TRIPLELUTZ had sent me a picture a while back of the ML112 in a studio and the engineer put a mic on both the woofer and the mid, then ran a DI as well. This would let you mix up pretty much any type of tone you could ask for and I heard the engineer was very impressed with the tone he got from the cab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

It sounds MUCH better to me on the ground....or is it just breaking in even better such that the lows coming from the 12" driver are catching up to the 6" driver? I don't know, but it sounds WAY better to me like this. EQ adjustments I needed to even it out are much less also. ...

The woofer in the ML112 uses a very stiff surround and it definitely changes the tone once it has broken it. You gain a couple dB in the low end once it's broken in, which makes it blend with the mid much better. Don't forget that the mid driver breaks in too. IMO, the entire cab will sound bigger, warmer and more balanced, once you have a good 6 to 8 hours of playing on it. Also keep in mind that mid forwardness you are hearing was put there deliberately to make this cab articulate in a live mix. It's very normal for you to think it may be a bit too much in your living room. Those upper mids are frequencies that like to get eaten up in a room full of people, so having them a bit forward helps the cab maintain it's clarity up in stage. You really have to try the cabs live before making a decision on them.

Top_Ten · #**508** 12-13-2012, 12:39 AM

Thanks for the responses to my question, everybody.

tombowlus · #**509** 12-13-2012, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Baer

The woofer in the ML112 uses a very stiff surround and it definitely changes the tone once it has broken it. You gain a couple dB in the low end once it's broken in, which makes it blend with the mid much better. Don't forget that the mid driver breaks in too. IMO, the entire cab will sound bigger, warmer and more balanced, once you have a good 6 to 8 hours of playing on it.

+1 I definitely observed this, myself.

Eublet · #**510** 12-13-2012, 02:15 PM

This cab sounds really good with the RH450. I might just have to break down and get the RH750 finally after putting it off forever. I love the Tone Hammer, but the TC heads are just something special to me. hmmm....

GRoberts · #**511** 12-13-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

This cab sounds really good with the RH450. I might just have to break down and get the RH750 finally after putting it off forever. I love the Tone Hammer, but the TC heads are just something special to me. hmmm....

Really? Hmmmm. I thought the TC Heads were even warmer and more tubey ...less definition? Perhaps you found a good Yin-Yang pairing of amp and cab?

Tugboat · #**512** 12-13-2012, 02:27 PM

Countdown to ML212........10.......(?)

Eublet · #**513** 12-13-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Really? Hmmmm. I thought the TC Heads were even warmer and more tubey ...less definition? Perhaps you found a good Yin-Yang pairing of amp and cab?

I would say yes to all of the above...more versatile is my description, as long as you don't want it cleaner. The Tone Hammer is really just a step toward a more modern amp coming from the RH450, and the only reason I bought one is because I have loved the pedal for so many years now. Just thinking out loud at this point.

R Baer · #**514** 12-13-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugboat

Countdown to ML212........10.......(?)

Everything is at the factory and we are just waiting for some space to open up on the production floor. We should be able to take orders around the end of next week.

nostatic · #**515** 12-13-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

+1 I definitely observed this, myself.

+2 I'm about mid-breakin I think. Already starting to get more relative booty.

Actually I think More Relative Booty is playing Warp Tour next summer...

Addison · #**516** 12-13-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Baer

Everything is at the factory and we are just waiting for some space to open up on the production floor. We should be able to take orders around the end of next week.

Ha!

Tugboat · #**517** 12-13-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

That definitely holds true. Two ML112's stacked horizontally sound huge but with those tight controlled lows that punch you in the chest. I think the amp and bass also make a difference with preferred orientation. I like the pair stacked horizontal but a single oriented vertically with a bit more bass boost to fatten it up. For a single 112, that driver can take the juice and deliver a nice fat balanced tone.

I don't think this is what you were saying...but I was thinking........why not horizontal on the bottom with a vertical sitting on top of it. Just for Ya Ya's

5StringPocket · #**518** 12-14-2012, 01:17 PM

That works too. I think someone has already used that and called it the "L" stack. That's what I like about the modular rig. Orientation does make some difference so you can flip and stack them any way you want that sounds good.

astack · #**519** 12-15-2012, 01:43 PM

Yup, that worked well for me most times.

I've also been thinking about the depth discussion... I think it's a bit of a red herring in the same way that weight or SPL or any other number taken on it's own is only so useful. The ML112's "seem" too deep because they're deeper than wide, IMO. Not because the the raw numbers say they're deeper than some other cab.

And same for weight. A very awkwardly placed handle can make a lighter weight piece of gear a huge pain to move. Actually, heavy items tend to have all the wheels, handles and skid rails to make them pretty easy to move compared to light weight one-hander items (i.e. ML212 vs. ML112).

In the case of the ML112, they're not too bad to carry, but those proportions do give the perception that you feel like you need a huge radius to maneuver around in.

Eublet · #**520** 12-15-2012, 02:47 PM

The RH450 is virtually perfect with this cab for my needs. I love the way they sound together, and the adjustable frequency points on all 4 bands let you realize adjust the head to match the voicing of the cabinet. I am ordering an rh750 today to get a little more power and the extra Tweetertone control which should help even more. The tone Hammer 500 is going on the block tonight. It was fun but since I have the pedal that I use with other amps I really don't need the head.