Baer Amplification; Part 2!!

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by R Baer

Also keep in mind that mid forwardness you are hearing was put there deliberately to make this cab articulate in a live mix. It's very normal for you to think it may be a bit too much in your living room. Those upper mids are frequencies that like to get eaten up in a room full of people, so having them a bit forward helps the cab maintain it's clarity up in stage.

My experience, exactly.

In my practice room, those mids do help me work on my technique (cleaning up position shifts and r.h./l.h. muting), but it's too much of a good thing tonewise. That's a matter of taste, of course, but I mostly use my good ol' Aggie cabs for practicing.

Playing in a club, or at a band practice, the mid-forward characteristic is just what I need for getting a nice definition in the mix. And the top end of the mid driver is just what I want for a slap tone that's clear and spanky without harshness--a modern slap tone without extending into dog whistle range.

[PWV]

*Just checking in here, I'm getting interested in these cabs...


Thanks Chef for the great review in Bass Gear - that answered a lot of my questions. You also noted in there that the ML 112's have a great sound with overdrive, and that's piqued my interest even more.

I'd probably have to unload my Aguilar DB112/DB112NT stack to make room for a ML 112 stack, and I really like the Aggie's a lot. Can anybody comment on the differences between the DB112's and ML112's? *Sorry if its been posted earlier, I'm still combing through the threads.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by PWV

*Just checking in here, I'm getting interested in these cabs...


Thanks Chef for the great review in Bass Gear - that answered a lot of my questions. You also noted in there that the ML 112's have a great sound with overdrive, and that's piqued my interest even more.

I'd probably have to unload my Aguilar DB112/DB112NT stack to make room for a ML 112 stack, and I really like the Aggie's a lot. Can anybody comment on the differences between the DB112's and ML112's? *Sorry if its been posted earlier, I'm still combing through the threads.

Yes, the growl of the DB's is more in the low-mids to mid-mids if you will, while the Baer is more even in that range, and has an upper-mid presence to it. They are somewhat similar but different enough that the change would be significant for many. The DB's are GREAT sounding cabinets, so if you are happy there I would not change a thing. If however you feel that the DB's sometimes need a little more articulation and presence in a mix, then the ML112 is a good step in that direction.

[PWV]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Yes, the growl of the DB's is more in the low-mids to mid-mids if you will, while the Baer is more even in that range, and has an upper-mid presence to it. They are somewhat similar but different enough that the change would be significant for many. The DB's are GREAT sounding cabinets, so if you are happy there I would not change a thing. If however you feel that the DB's sometimes need a little more articulation and presence in a mix, then the ML112 is a good step in that direction.

Thanks Jason - yes, I'm not sure if the difference is enough to justify the move right now. I'm also curious about the ML 115, so I'll probably sit tight for now...maybe.

[gillento]

Originally Posted by Eublet

The DB's are GREAT sounding cabinets, so if you are happy there I would not change a thing. If however you feel that the DB's sometimes need a little more articulation and presence in a mix, then the ML112 is a good step in that direction.

+1

I sold my SL112 stack to make room for the ML112 and I am still not sure me and my bandmates won't miss them

[B String]

Originally Posted by gillento

+1

I sold my SL112 stack to make room for the ML112 and I am still not sure Me and ma bandmates won't miss them

I wouldn't be shocked if one ML112 didn't just about do what two of the SL's did. Surprisingly big and loud for its size. I pounded the box pretty good and never made it cry.

[Chef]

One ML112 beat up my drummer and took his milk money.
When I bring two, he won't even make eye contact with them.

[gillento]

Originally Posted by B String

I wouldn't be shocked if one ML112 didn't just about do what two of the SL's did. Surprisingly big and loud for its size. I pounded the box pretty good and never made it cry.

I am not sure if it is a question of loudness/volume/SPL but rather sound..... but I'll have to work on my eq settings to make a final judgement.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by gillento

I am not sure if it is a question of loudness/volume/SPL but rather sound..... but I'll have to work on my eq settings to make a final judgement.

The ML's have a different tone profile than most cabs, so it's natural that you may need to take a different approach to your amp's EQ, than you were using with your old cabs. My first recommendation is to give your ears a chance to acclimate to what these cabs are doing on their own. It's a very natural reaction for your ears to want to hear the tone they have been used to. If you need a little something different, I've found the vintage tone control on your bass to be very effective at changing the tone profile of the cabs. The ML's respond to slight changes in EQ very well and are capable of reproducing a pretty wide variety of tones, so you should be able to dial up just about any tone your are looking for. Keep in mind that it's always better to cut than to boost. For example, if you find the cabs too bright, or that you need more low mids, try cutting the upper mids, or treble on your amp before trying to actually boost the low mids.

[nordyboy]

Rocking around the Christmas tree with the Baerbenz

[nostatic]

I did an outdoor gig today with just one cab. More than covered it and it wasn't even breathing hard. I'll second Roger's comment on cutting a bit rather than boosting. I find that these cabs have good upper-mid presence that can be a blessing and curse depending on your technique and the sound you're going for. It is balanced however by great low end support for the notes. I'm rolling off just a bit of mids on my preamp (usually I boost them a bit) and it gets smooth while still having punch.

I normally don't dig JJ basses, but my recent Lull JJ through the Monique tube preamp into the ML112 is flat out sick sounding.

[PWV]

Originally Posted by R Baer

Keep in mind that it's always better to cut than to boost.

This.


Once I discovered this approach a few years ago, it opened up a whole world of tone.

*How I used to think
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[R Baer]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I normally don't dig JJ basses, but my recent Lull JJ through the Monique tube preamp into the ML112 is flat out sick sounding.

That orangesickle Lull is amazing looking. I've been more and more drawn to Mike's designs over the years. Seriously thinking about picking up a nice Lull P-Bass soon, as I don't have a P-Bass in my arsenal yet. Just missed getting a great one in the TB classifieds and someone beat me to it while I was sitting undeceive on the fence. I'll know better next time!

[nostatic]

Here is a recording of the orangesicle from today. Single ML112 with Monique pre into the power amp of the Puma:

http://nostatic.com/mp3/16dec12/em.mp3 (live looping so it has some ragged bits)

I'm trying to keep from ordering a P4 in trans orange to go along with this. This bass is exactly the spec I have not liked over the years - ash/maple JJ. It kills. Go figure...

If you're talking about the sunburst P4 with the J neck, I missed out on that one too. I'm not a 1-3/4" nut kinda guy so the recent sea foam one wasn't my thing.

[nostatic]

And for something different, indoors at the yacht club. Tough room - glass all behind us, and we're spread out along the wall. This cabinet sounds awesome - articulate with plenty of supporting low end. I think it is the Lull, but might be the YYD.

http://nostatic.com/mp3/14dec12/christmas.mp3

[kringle77]

Great tone man. What are you recording with?

[nostatic]

Zoom H4N out in the room.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Zoom H4N out in the room.

I think your Zoom needs servicing. It sounds as if it's recording the bass guitar also. I'm hearing actual bass notes. That can't be right.

[nostatic]

Yeah, crazy

I do a high frequency roll-off when I cut the tracks (starting around 12Khz). The Zooms have a lot of top end (I'm recording 44.1 wav, stamina mode). I don't do any other eq, but do throw a limiter and comp on the master in Logic.

I have to say, Monique into a power amp into the Baer is a ridiculous combination. If I crank the sensitivity knob on the Monique I can get into SVT territory - not overdrive, but just complexity and edge. And the ML112 reproduces that tone incredibly well. A typical tweeter cab would either miss it or harsh it up.

[gillento]

Originally Posted by R Baer

The ML's have a different tone profile than most cabs, so it's natural that you may need to take a different approach to your amp's EQ, than you were using with your old cabs. My first recommendation is to give your ears a chance to acclimate to what these cabs are doing on their own. It's a very natural reaction for your ears to want to hear the tone they have been used to. If you need a little something different, I've found the vintage tone control on your bass to be very effective at changing the tone profile of the cabs. The ML's respond to slight changes in EQ very well and are capable of reproducing a pretty wide variety of tones, so you should be able to dial up just about any tone your are looking for. Keep in mind that it's always better to cut than to boost. For example, if you find the cabs too bright, or that you need more low mids, try cutting the upper mids, or treble on your amp before trying to actually boost the low mids.

Thanks for your commitment to tone, Roger.

My concern is not the top end, but rather keeping the extended low end of the ML112 under control