Baer Amplification; Part 2!!

[Chef]

I can't find the picture from the club gig right off hand, but:

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by CTC564

LMAO...

"I grew up in the Peoples' Republic of New Jersey (a/k/a "the attitude capital of the world"), so my BS filter is well-developed..."

If I knew how to add a signature line, THIS would be perfect!!!

Thanks for the laugh

Seein' how I be a NJ Bassist emeritus, I can h'ep you widdat. (And us emeritus cats always dig bein' footnoted, yeah...)

Hit your profile, in My Talkbass. You'll see a link for your signature. That's where you can compose, preview, and save a sig.

Edit: yeah, just checked my memory of it. Click on My Talkbass. Under Control Panel/Settings is edit signature.

[nordyboy]

Originally Posted by Eublet

I think it's the power section with the APM that does it for some people. On the RH450, it gets very loud but it does it in a way that some might not appreciate. On the Blacksmith however, which has the exact same preamp, that thing is capable of some very serious output such that it wallops before the APM really starts doing it's thing. Still the APM is not what many on this forum have accused it of being, and even on the Blacksmith at lower output settings it is shaping the tone and response of the head in a way you either like or don't like. I love it personally, but wanted a little more punch on the attack which is what both the RH750 and the BG250 have, even over the Blacksmith. The Blacksmith and the RH450 are more identical in the APM implementation in that the max output of the head and the burst capabilities are set to be identical. On the RH750 and BG250, the APM is opened up a bit to allow more transient attack, which IMO makes them sound even more like a legit tube head, slightly punchier, but still with some control. Very cool to me.

As much as I loved the Tone Hammer 500 and the pedal for their tone, neither have a tube feel to me at all. They sound very warm and aggressive in the mids, and would break up well with the AGS if you drove them, but there was almost no tube-like sag in the feel or response on the head at all, which for me at least hindered the ability to play it like a "rock" head on the gig. Things you could normally do with a P bass for example just didn't work with the TH500 at all because the head didn't respond and breath like a tube head or for that matter something with a bunch of MOSFET's in the power section like the DB750 or Mesa Walkabout. The TC heads IME let you get that same kind of feel going on. You can get a little crazy with your technique, and instead of it coming out like a punchy mess, it kind of dips and sags such that comes across as very musical. Hard to explain what I'm trying to say, but if you have ever heard Mutemath's self-titled album, it is full of that kind of P-bass thing. Very loud, very driven, lots of 'sliding around' on the strings and grabbing octaves in a way that only a tube head can let you pull off in the same way. It's fun to play like that in the right setting...didn't really work with the Tone Hammer for me. YMMV.

FWIW, GRoberts had me really looking at the Orange TB500 a couple weeks ago, which I still have not tried. I did read the BGM article and listened to a lot of clips. I was thinking of picking up one of those instead of the RH750, but one thing that scared me off was that huge burst rating which is quite impressive, but I don't think it would let me accomplish what I just described and might actually work against my goals. I really don't want a tube-sounding head to have a big burst rating. I want it to compress and breath a bit when I slam it.

Anyway, a bit of a derail here. The ML112 is what lead me to finally pick up the RH750. The Tone Hammer is a good choice for that cab, but I'm looking for something a little more. I might have to try the Valkyrie also. The ML112 is working out great for me so far, and if the RH750 is a slam then I'll be buying another ML!

I just thought it was lacking depth in the low end. For me personally the hpf is set way too high.
I can understand how that might work for others, If the Baer ml complements the rh750 well then I would consider a purchase, but it has some pretty stiff competition!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

FWIW, GRoberts had me really looking at the Orange TB500 a couple weeks ago, which I still have not tried. I did read the BGM article and listened to a lot of clips. I was thinking of picking up one of those instead of the RH750, but one thing that scared me off was that huge burst rating which is quite impressive, but I don't think it would let me accomplish what I just described and might actually work against my goals. I really don't want a tube-sounding head to have a big burst rating. I want it to compress and breath a bit when I slam it.

Hey Jason, I would not let the burst rating of the Orange TB500 disuade from checking it out. The amp 'breathe's and is very touch sensitive. But it won't let you down on your B string when you nail a note that you want to have tubey grind, without too much sag that its overly round and deep (Dub sounding) I still want the feel of Iron transformer, but with the presence, sweetness and touch sensitivity of a tube amp. I get that from the Orange TB500, in a friendly to schlep package. The only detractor I've found is the lack of DI output level control. That's a bummer since the signal was a bit too strong for the band Mixer (Yamaha) that does not have an input pad trimmer. Everywhere else, most mixers do have input pad control.

back to the regularly scheduled ML112 thread. I loved the pic that Nordyboy posted of his Orange TB500 head atop a stack of ML112's!

[CTC564]

Originally Posted by Ewo

Seein' how I be a NJ Bassist emeritus, I can h'ep you widdat. (And us emeritus cats always dig bein' footnoted, yeah...)

Hit your profile, in My Talkbass. You'll see a link for your signature. That's where you can compose, preview, and save a sig.

Edit: yeah, just checked my memory of it. Click on My Talkbass. Under Control Panel/Settings is edit signature.

Thanks...I'll follow these instructions as soon as I can get to my desktop

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Hey Jason, I would not let the burst rating of the Orange TB500 disuade from checking it out. The amp 'breathe's and is very touch sensitive. But it won't let you down on your B string when you nail a note that you want to have tubey grind, without too much sag that its overly round and deep (Dub sounding) I still want the feel of Iron transformer, but with the presence, sweetness and touch sensitivity of a tube amp. I get that from the Orange TB500, in a friendly to schlep package. The only detractor I've found is the lack of DI output level control. That's a bummer since the signal was a bit too strong for the band Mixer (Yamaha) that does not have an input pad trimmer. Everywhere else, most mixers do have input pad control.

back to the regularly scheduled ML112 thread. I loved the pic that Nordyboy posted of his Orange TB500 head atop a stack of ML112's!

Oh, it's still on the short list to try. I love the clips I've heard of it running clean. I just had to get this next purchase right, and I've put the RH750 off for far too long. I bought the TH500 instead of the RH750, knowing exactly that I'd love the tone, but wanted to see how the power section did. Well, it's great, but I already have that tone in my pedal and can get that through most any head. I actually prefer the TH pedal better through the RH450 power section because of that heads APM feel.

I would think that the TB500 would be an absolute monster through the ML cabs. The top end really is wonderful to me now that I'm laying it down horizontal, yet it still projects. The mid driver seems to have enough dispersion that you can still hear it well even at 3 or 4 feet away, which I really like. No way a compression horn really lets you do that.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Oh, it's still on the short list to try. I love the clips I've heard of it running clean. I just had to get this next purchase right, and I've put the RH750 off for far too long. I bought the TH500 instead of the RH750, knowing exactly that I'd love the tone, but wanted to see how the power section did. Well, it's great, but I already have that tone in my pedal and can get that through most any head. I actually prefer the TH pedal better through the RH450 power section because of that heads APM feel.

I would think that the TB500 would be an absolute monster through the ML cabs. The top end really is wonderful to me now that I'm laying it down horizontal, yet it still projects. The mid driver seems to have enough dispersion that you can still hear it well even at 3 or 4 feet away, which I really like. No way a compression horn really lets you do that.

All cool. Just encourage you to give it a test drive if you get a chance. Based on what you described, I think it's gonna get you there. Especially with the ML112 cab. everything I've read about the RH450 and RH750 is that they are the 'most' tubey. To the point I think they may be a bit 'too' wooly for me. But I don't have any first hand experience.

[nordyboy]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

All cool. Just encourage you to give it a test drive if you get a chance. Based on what you described, I think it's gonna get you there. Especially with the ML112 cab. everything I've read about the RH450 and RH750 is that they are the 'most' tubey. To the point I think they may be a bit 'too' wooly for me. But I don't have any first hand experience.

I think being able to test drive this gear before you buy is essential. I am really fortunate that I live less than an hour from Bass Direct, I was able to compare the Baers to the Bergs to the Vanderkleys, and a lot of the heads that we are discussing here. The only reason that I did not buy Kens suggestion of the th500 was that I could not try it out before purchase.
The mid driver on the Baer sounds great with a bit of natural valve break up!

[Eublet]

RH750 has been here for a couple of hours. It slams with the ML112. Total control over every single aspect of the cab. The highs, lows, two bands of mids, crispness, warmth, etc. The ML just sings with it. What else is there to say? I just need to cancel my TB membership right now and ride off into the sunset or something.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

RH750 has been here for a couple of hours. It slams with the ML112. Total control over every single aspect of the cab. The highs, lows, two bands of mids, crispness, warmth, etc. The ML just sings with it. What else is there to say? I just need to cancel my TB membership right now and ride off into the sunset or something.

LMAO! That's awesome Jason. Still honeymoon, or do you feel you're "there" ...done? >..aside from scoring another ML112 cab for the 'stack.'?

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by KJung

Sorry for the OT on heads Roger Since all these sort of 'tubey voiced' (for lack of a better term) heads work WONDERFULLY with your ML112, hopefully the posts are still in the spirit of optimizing that wonderful 112 for various users. Of course, when your own head comes out, the vibe on this will change a bit

No worries guys. Everyone uses their cabs in different ways and it's great that TB is here as a forum for people to talk about the cabs and their amps. I actually enjoy reading everything, as it gives me a lot of insight as to what are customers are in to. Carry on.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

LMAO! That's awesome Jason. Still honeymoon, or do you feel you're "there" ...done? >..aside from scoring another ML112 cab for the 'stack.'?

Well, maybe I need to give it one more listen.

Just kidding. Yeah, I'm going to add a second ML later. The RH750 isn't really anything new here for me because the of 450, except that the highs can go all the up into that crisp, more airy thing but still not harsh like with the GK MB head (for my tastes at least), and it's punchier compared to the 450. There was nothing else out there that I even wanted to check out after the Tone Hammer, at least not until you started with that darn TB500.

I don't see myself trying that one anytime soon though because it's fairly pricey, though well worth it I'm sure. I'll add another ML112 after the first of the year, and I'm seriously going to my best to make good on my promise to not change anything for at least 2 years.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Well, maybe I need to give it one more listen.

Just kidding. Yeah, I'm going to add a second ML later. The RH750 isn't really anything new here for me because the of 450, except that the highs can go all the up into that crisp, more airy thing but still not harsh like with the GK MB head (for my tastes at least), and it's punchier compared to the 450. There was nothing else out there that I even wanted to check out after the Tone Hammer, at least not until you started with that darn TB500.

I don't see myself trying that one anytime soon though because it's fairly pricey, though well worth it I'm sure. I'll add another ML112 after the first of the year, and I'm seriously going to my best to make good on my promise to not change anything for at least 2 years.

Very tempted to go down your road; buy one ML112 first and then get some familiarity under my belt. also softens the financial outlay into a couple chunks.

And FYI - There are two Orange TB500H's in the classifieds now for around $500 - $575. :-) Tormenting you is just another service I offer. hehe ..Besides, I want you to compare your RH750 to an Orange TB500 and let me know. Then again, maybe you would want the Orange TB1000. But I can't see why. I get to ear splitting/frowns from band mates and club owners at 10 O'clock on the Master Vol of my Orange TB500h. It's Punchy! ..and has a 4/8 ohn impedance switch. So you get full power into one cab, or two!

[nordyboy]

Originally Posted by Eublet

RH750 has been here for a couple of hours. It slams with the ML112. Total control over every single aspect of the cab. The highs, lows, two bands of mids, crispness, warmth, etc. The ML just sings with it. What else is there to say? I just need to cancel my TB membership right now and ride off into the sunset or something.

Hey, glad you found a match there, I may have to give a 750 a try out with the ml112 myself!
Maybe I missed an opportunity there when I bought the terror.....

[CElton]

Originally Posted by Eublet

RH750 has been here for a couple of hours. It slams with the ML112. Total control over every single aspect of the cab. The highs, lows, two bands of mids, crispness, warmth, etc. The ML just sings with it. What else is there to say? I just need to cancel my TB membership right now and ride off into the sunset or something.

Lol...I would like to check one out. Not much of a tweaker myself, but having that kind of control sure would be nice when you need it.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Very tempted to go down your road; buy one ML112 first and then get some familiarity under my belt. also softens the financial outlay into a couple chunks.

And FYI - There are two Orange TB500H's in the classifieds now for around $500 - $575. :-) Tormenting you is just another service I offer. hehe ..Besides, I want you to compare your RH750 to an Orange TB500 and let me know. Then again, maybe you would want the Orange TB1000. But I can't see why. I get to ear splitting/frowns from band mates and club owners at 10 O'clock on the Master Vol of my Orange TB500h. It's Punchy! ..and has a 4/8 ohn impedance switch. So you get full power into one cab, or two!

I think I might as I love that tone in their all-tube heads. If the TB500 is anywhere close, I'm sure I'll try one sooner or later.

Originally Posted by nordyboy

Hey, glad you found a match there, I may have to give a 750 a try out with the ml112 myself!
Maybe I missed an opportunity there when I bought the terror.....

I doubt you missed out as it sounds like you are thrilled already. I'm sure this is a very different thing from the Terror.

Originally Posted by CElton

Lol...I would like to check one out. Not much of a tweaker myself, but having that kind of control sure would be nice when you need it.

I don't tweak a lot either except if I'm recording. What I like is that this head can be molded to fit your cab and bass more or less, especially now that there is a Tweetertone control on it. Once I get the frequency points dialed in I like, I generally save those across all 3 presets, and then all I do is change levels, overdrive, or gain settings. The Shift button is genius because you have all that control and never have to see it or touch it if you don't want to. It's a 14-knob head with only 8 knobs. Very cool. The digital out KILLS in the studio too. Zero noise issues, and you get that pristine bass "cabinet-warm" tone straight into Pro Tools without any fuss or mic'ing. Engineers love it and they are usually a very persnickety bunch.

Sorry for the derail again. To help bring this train back on track, the ML112 made my RH450 shine like even the TC cabs couldn't do. The increased upper-mid response of the cab, versus the slightly darker upper-mid of the RS210/212 with that coax tweeter, really helps brighten up the RH heads in a good way without requiring much EQ. I have to push treble at around 2khz up about 3 to 5 clicks on the RS210 to get the presence I want. With the ML112, I'm finding 1 or 2 clicks sounds beautiful and not harsh at all.

And the Tubetone through that mid-driver really sounds great. Digging it.

[rpsands]

Just an FYI, but Geartree has bass terror 500s for 649, and Musi123 will match it down to like 625 or so. Kinda beats out most of the used deals.

I actually got Music123 to price match the ebay price for restocks on a new one, so 559 new, for the one I just ordered.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Just an FYI, but Geartree has bass terror 500s for 649, and Musi123 will match it down to like 625 or so. Kinda beats out most of the used deals.

I actually got Music123 to price match the ebay price for restocks on a new one, so 559 new, for the one I just ordered.

Really, I was thinking they were more than that. Good thing I didn't see that a week ago.

[rpsands]

I should start a service to help people get sick deals on gear online

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I should start a service to help people get sick deals on gear online

And so it has begun! ..So you bit the bullet and ordered one did you? Awesome! Can't wait to hear your full report!