Baer Amplification; Part 2!!

[Addison]

Yeah, I never really missed my MB Bass 400+ until now... Oh man, would that sound good...



It might even sound good enough to make me forget about the fact that it weighed 85 lbs in a 6U road case with a power conditioner.

[nordyboy]

Originally Posted by Chef

Yessir, I think the ML stuff would be ideal for tube amps.
They do a wonderful job of presenting grit/grind/OD in a musical way.

+1 tube tone sounds great through the midrange driver, and the terror at higher gain settings also sounded amazing.

[nostatic]

Monique into ML112(s) = win

[5StringPocket]

Thinking of trying the De-Monique into my 2xML112s...

[Jeff Moote]

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

Thinking of trying the De-Monique into my 2xML112s...

That's what I am hoping to end up with very soon!

[chuck3]

went out looking for a 4x10 and got steered in the direction of a Baer ML212. This in connection with looking for a match with the Streamliner 900. I understand reservations about this head based on its baked-in EQ. I'm a big Genz Benz fan but there's no doubt this head has a totally different personality from the Shuttles and it's not that easy to figure out.

That said, it's what I'm working with and people seem excited about pairing the STM 900 with the Baer ML212.

I guess I'm still stuck on the more general question of the difference between a 4x10 and a 212. 4x10 gets a lot of love on TB, although I've never had one and have always been a 212 guy. That said, the ML212 doesn't seem to be a straight 212 but seems like a 212 with 2 6's (not just tweeters) in there as well.

Any comments/thoughts appreciated. I'm looking at the Baer ML212, the Berg HD410 and the Genz Benz Uber 4-ohm 410. All great cabs, I know, but I gotta decide.

[Tugboat]

Originally Posted by 5StringPocket

Thinking of trying the De-Monique into my 2xML112s...

+1 my Monique should be here next week. Can't wait to hear her through my ML112's. Got a new power amp also.....figure my ML112's through channel A, and then my pair of ML115's through channel B. Stand back while I steal your face.

[nordyboy]

Any comments/thoughts appreciated. I'm looking at the Baer ML212, the Berg HD410 and the Genz Benz Uber 4-ohm 410. All great cabs, I know, but I gotta decide.[/quote]
I cannot comment on the uber first hand but I can on the berg and also two ml112.
First of all portability, the Berg is seriously heavy, even more so than its predecessor the HS410 which I have owned and loved to bits, that was renowned to be the best 410 ever made, and the HD is an improvement (it has some extra high mid in comparison) and a thicker front grille.
It is very compact and surprisingly small when you see it up close.
The Berg is lower and squatter, so projection is not as good as the ML when playing at close proximity on cramped stages.
The Berg has a more high end response available due to its excellent tweeter which is adjustable. The Berg cannot match the huge low end response of the ML cabs. The Berg however does sound quite muscular, I assume due to quite a lot of low mid content.
Volume is ridiculous with both!
Finish is immaculate with both.
These are totally amazing products from two of the best cab builders around today.
:banghead:

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Addison

Ok, here's a longer report... honestly, I'm at a point now where I feel like I have TOO MUCH to say about this cab. The more I think about it, the harder it is becoming to nail down my experience in words.

Again, forgive me for my lack of expert knowledge on amps, power, frequencies, etc... I dial stuff in until it sounds good to my ears... there's no science behind it.

Increased articulation: The one almost immediate thing that I have noticed with this cab is the overall clarity and definition of every note. Every plucked or picked note has a defined attack, backed with moving air across all frequencies, not just in the bottom end. This is a hard thing to explain without hearing it... but I feel like there must be a specific group of higher frequencies that most tweeter-loaded cabs don't have in that tiny range where the pad of your finger makes that slight "pop" when it plucks the string. It holds true playing with a pick as well... every plucked note has an upper-mid punch to it, that I've never quite heard before in this way. And it's not a harsh upper mid like you might be thinking... it's an airy upper mid punch... which almost seems like a contradiction of terms, but it's the only way I can describe it. I've had punchy tweeter loaded cabs as well... my DB 112's are "punchy" and I don't want to take anything away from those cabs... but this is simply different. Air is being moved across a much broader range of frequncies... I feel like I can feel the mids, and not just the low-end. This is strange to experience, and even stranger to describe, but it's so, so good.

Every note played is heard... complex chords have wonderful separation and are not muddied. Every plucked or picked note has a defined attack, backed with moving air. Have you ever played a chord and it seems like you have to look for the 3rd or the 7th in that chord in order to really hear it? I feel like every note is now there and in plain view.

Effects: I have a massive pedalboard, and I love effects. All I can say is that if you love effects, this cab could be a gamechanger for you. You know that clarity that I described above? Have you ever used heavy fuzz or distortion and feel like you lost definition and clarity? Do you feel like the tweeter in your cab turns into an annoying buzz-saw when you use fuzz or distortion? Well, I have a Wren & Cuff Pickle Pie B, which is a ridiculously saturated muff-style fuzz, and it simply comes ALIVE with this cab. All of the harshness gets pulled out of the frequency set that sounds like a mosquito buzzing in your ear, and gets placed a little further down in that specific frequency spectrum that sounds a little more like a creamy high-end distorted goodness. A little further down from there, you retain that upper-mid attack and articulation that you have WITHOUT the effect.

Every effect on my pedalboard sounds more interesting and complex with overtones that I've simply never heard before.

Amps: So far, I've tried both my TH500 and my STM900 with the ML212. Both heads were dialed in to where I thought they sounded great with my pair of DB112 cabs, and the EQ settings were left that way when I plugged into the ML212.

The TH500 has a small but significant bass and treble boost (1:30), with a bit of a mid cut (10:30), and, IIRC, the mid-freq knob is at the 2:30 position. The STM900 is practically flat, with a very small mid cut at 600K. Both heads sounded great set like this through the DB112 cabs. Slightly different, but still great. The TH500 sounds a little "flatter" and the STM900 has a slightly warmer, scooped tone.

Plugged into the ML212, however, the STM900 really, REALLY shines. Keeping the settings as they were, I preferred it WAY more than the TH500, where I preferred the TH500 more through the set of DB cabs.

I know Roger is not a big fan of the STM900 and most other heads that have "baked-in" EQ-curves when set flat, but this amp is seriously a match made in heaven for this cab. They compliment each other SOOOO well. I love, love, LOVE it.

Basses: I used all of my basses and they all sound frikkin' awesome. ESPECIALLY my fretless... there's some yumminess from the strings on the fretboard that happens that I've literally never heard through a tweeter-loaded cab. It's all here now... every nuance. This cab just loves to dish out the frequencies that make fretless basses sing.

The built-in "scoop" that active basses tend to have, even when set flat, compliments the upper mid extension of the cab right now, whereas passive passes seem like they could use a boost in low-end, especially... but I expect this to change quite a bit as the cab breaks in and after I have had a chance to play with EQ quite a bit more.

More on weight: Again... I cannot stress this enough... unless you have bad back problems or other specific health issues, you should NOT be intimidated by the weight and form factor of this cab.

If you're relatively healthy and don't have to do multiple flights of stairs before and after every gig, I don't think you should be concerned at all about this cab.

Especially if you have the caster set, which is quite cool.

More on volume: All of my basses are hanging on the wall in my music room, and, at one point, the strings on them were all vibrating violently when I was playing. I have a dresser in my room, and the bail pulls were about ready to rattle out of their fixtures... and I was still unable to see a lot of movement coming from the 12s.

It was only after I started using my MXR Blowtorch in conjunction with my octave pedal at near offensive levels when I noticed some obvious excursion.

Obviously, things change A LOT when you're sandwiched up between a drummer, guitar player, keyboard, etc... but I cannot see how I will EVER have any volume problem in pretty much any situation with this cab.

My ears are STILL feeling it right now... it's just LOUD.

Dispersion: When I turn my back to my DB112 stack and back up to it so my heels are almost touching the cabs (this is the case in over half of my gigs), I get a lot of lows and low mids that honestly sound and feel fantastic... but I lose a lot of high end and that midrange articulation that gives each played note the definition it needs to be heard, rather than felt.

This still needs to be tested in a live band situation, but doing this with the ML212 literally had almost no change in the overall sound of the cab. I was REALLY surprised by how great this cab still sounds with my back facing it and standing right up against it. I can't wait to try it out during a gig.

In conclusion: So far, I'm just really, REALLY happy... and from everything everyone keeps saying about break-in, I can only see myself getting happier as time goes on. I've honestly already started thinking about selling my entire Aguilar rig and buying a set of ML112's to replace them.

And I'll be the first one to admit that I tend to get overexcited about new gear, but... I'm trying really, really hard to keep a level head about this, and no matter what I do or how I try to slice it, this cab is literally a gamechanger for me. All I've been able to think about today is getting home to juice it up some more... I'm just really excited to play through it and the thought of using it at my next gig is verging on sexual.

Hey Chris,
Glad you are enjoying the cab so far and thank you for such a thorough in depth review. Putting a new product out there is always avery nerve-wracking experience. It really sounds like your tonal goals are very similar to mine, as a lot of what you are describing, is exactly why we made this cab in the first place. Here's a couple comments:

Increased articulation: Chords through the ML112's seem to have really good balance between all the chordal notes, which makes playing them a little easier, as you don't feel like you have to hit the strings harder for the notes to be heard.

Effects: One of my main goals with this cab was getting the tube distortion from the Valkyrie to sound like it does when I listen to it on my Beyerdynamic studio headphones. I just couldn't hear all the nuances and overtones of the tube through a traditional cab in the same way that I was hearing them in the headphones, so the ML's were born. I think NOSTATIC has mentioned before that he finds the ML112's really make it easier to hear his looper pedal in a live mix, which again, is an effect of the increased articulation from the cab.

Amps: I have nothing against baked in EQ curves on an amp, as long as that curve works for you. The reason I don't like dramatically EQ'ed amps is because once start adjusting the amp, you are basically EQ'ing an EQ curve if that makes sense. The tone controls on the amp will almost never match the frequency centers and Q of the built in EQ, so you start putting curves, or dips, on top of curves and dips and I feel that takes away from the tone of your instrument. Our amp was designed by guys with a reputation for building world class studio gear and I really liked the different approach that brought to our preamp design. It's probably just my background from spending a lot of time in the studio, but I like knowing exactly how any EQ changes I make are actually affecting my sound.

Basses: I agree. Those mids really bring out the "woodiness" and organic nature of the fretless quite well. You really hear the notes bloom on the low end and the mids really let you hear not just the note, but the sound of the string against the wood which is pretty cool.

More on weight: Moving larger cabinets is all about technique. Personally, I like casters on a cab as I can stack a few things on the cab and wheel it into the gig. The quick release plates let you take the casters off easily at the gig, if you want the cab right on the stage. Also, my kids think it looks funny, but the easiest way for me to carry that cab is to lift it by the handles and then put the top of the cab against my torso with the cab sticking straight out. Sounds crazy, but try it out. It seems easier to move that way because your legs aren't banging into the cab when you walk.

Dispersion: That mid driver is really quite good when it comes to dispersion and it really seems to have better dispersion than the specs would suggest. I'm always pleasantly surprised buy how far off axis I can get before there is a serious drop if perceived output from the mid. You can go off axis and hear the upper mids dip a hair, but then as you keep going more and more off axis, is still seems to keep usable output, way past the point you would think. The really cool thing is that your bandmates usually notice this as well, which allows them to hear your playing better and at a lower volume. Always a good thing.

[Addison]

First gig comin' up!!!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Addison

Attachment 312263

First gig comin' up!!!

LOVE your Zon! If i could ever have a Zon, that is the ONE ...except right handed of course.

[Chef]

I had an audition with a new project today.
I took my Sadowsky MVPJ5, GK MBFusion, and one Baer 112.

The guitar player actually stopped in the middle of one song and asked "What is that speaker, you rig sounds freakin' fabulous."

Yessir, yessir, three bags full.

Baer is the good stuff.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Chef

I had an audition with a new project today.
I took my Sadowsky MVPJ5, GK MBFusion, and one Baer 112.

The guitar player actually stopped in the middle of one song and asked "What is that speaker, you rig sounds freakin' fabulous."

Yessir, yessir, three bags full.

Baer is the good stuff.

That could very well become my small to medium gig rig I think. Was the Baer ML112 on the ground, and horizontal or vertical?

[Chef]

on the ground, vertical

fat and snappy, all at the same time.
crisp, clean, and punchy.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Chef

on the ground, vertical

fat and snappy, all at the same time.
crisp, clean, and punchy.

Yup. could be the new rig this year. Certainly a Baer ML112 sometime before spring 2013.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by Chef

I had an audition with a new project today.
I took my Sadowsky MVPJ5, GK MBFusion, and one Baer 112.

The guitar player actually stopped in the middle of one song and asked "What is that speaker, you rig sounds freakin' fabulous."

Yessir, yessir, three bags full.

Baer is the good stuff.

Interesting. Been thinking about the MBFusion as a change up to the Streamliner.

[Chef]

I didn't like the Streamliner even a little bit.
Too fat, blurry and scooped for me.
I maybe coulda tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and made it work, but, if things don't work pretty readily for me, I just move on.

I loooove the MBFusion. Love it.
I hardly ever use anything else anymore, and even sold my Mesa M9 recently.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by Chef

I didn't like the Streamliner even a little bit.
Too fat, blurry and scooped for me.
I maybe coulda tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and made it work, but, if things don't work pretty readily for me, I just move on.

I loooove the MBFusion. Love it.
I hardly ever use anything else anymore, and even sold my Mesa M9 recently.

That was my experience with the STL as well. Just not good for me.

[Chef]

plenty of folks like them, so, there ya go...
different strokes, etc.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by Chef

I didn't like the Streamliner even a little bit.
Too fat, blurry and scooped for me.
I maybe coulda tweaked and tweaked and tweaked and made it work, but, if things don't work pretty readily for me, I just move on.

I loooove the MBFusion. Love it.
I hardly ever use anything else anymore, and even sold my Mesa M9 recently.

Different strokes. I like the Streamliner a lot. Just looking for something different with my J bass. I'll have to give the MBFusion a tryout.