Baer Amplification; Part 2!!

[Ewo]

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

Any update on the head?

+1

[R Baer]

Ok, Here's an update on the head. We have the design pretty much done at this point and are starting to turn our attention to getting some built. What we are looking at doing is building a very small run of amps to serve as beta units. On these amps, we would be offering a discounted "introductory price" for anyone willing to take the plunge on an amp from the first batch. As soon as I have all the details and pricing in hand, I will let everyone know. If anyone is interested, you can contact me and I can send you all the details and put you on the list. roger@baeramps.com

[LowBSix]

Roger is one of those superb boutique owner/builders that delivers QUALITY and Customer SERVICE!!!!
I've had the honor of beta testing the amp and a 2x12 = Awesome!

Clean with growl.

I think it's time for a ML112 or 2!!!

[GRoberts]

I like the wedge Chef! As cool as that is, do you prefer the vertical stack?

And you reviews and feedback is very very helpful and compelling.

Originally Posted by Chef

Ampwedge, between horizontal cabs.
I dig it.

[Eublet]

I think I'm going to be ordering an ML112 very soon, or thought I was, then fliping through these threads I see there's an ML115 coming out. Grrrrr.....

[Chef]

and a 212.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by Chef

and a 212.

Yeah, I saw the 212 on the website, but the size and weight doesn't appeal to me. I'm curious about the ML115 though. I'd guess that it would weigh another 7-8 pounds over the 112, which is not bad considering how much more output it should have. Truthfully, that 112 probably has all the volume I need. I've done most of my gigging with "regular" 112's for a few years now.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Yeah, I saw the 212 on the website, but the size and weight doesn't appeal to me. I'm curious about the ML115 though. I'd guess that it would weigh another 7-8 pounds over the 112, which is not bad considering how much more output it should have. Truthfully, that 112 probably has all the volume I need. I've done most of my gigging with "regular" 112's for a few years now.

Final prototype of the ML115 is done and weighs in at 51lbs. This cab isn't intended to be a lightweight, compact 15. When it comes to our cabs, we do give consideration to the weight, but honestly performance comes first and the weight just ends up whatever it ends up. We do however, put a lot of thought into size, balance and handle placement so the carry is as easy as possible. The ML212 and ML115 work better with casters and the cabs are set up at the factory with tee-nuts and machine screws already in place to install our caster kit.

The ML212 was designed for the guys that prefer a one cab load in, myself included. Plus, the closer alignment of the drivers makes for improved dispersion.

[Chef]

What great attention to detail!!!!!

Originally Posted by R Baer

the cabs are set up at the factory with tee-nuts and machine screws already in place to install our caster kit.

[Chef]

I missed this; sorry.
Yes, I do prefer them vertical, in both cases.

Originally Posted by GRoberts

I like the wedge Chef! As cool as that is, do you prefer the vertical stack?

And you reviews and feedback is very very helpful and compelling.

[Eublet]

So is the ML112 really like a "better db112" like I've heard a few times? I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the db112, but the form factor and weight leave a little to be desired. I've been on the edge between trying to decide if I want to pickup a DB212 or the new Genz Nx2 212. The Nx2 212 easily wins the weight/form factor argument, at an average of 47lbs. It wont have the upper-mid aggression that I love in the DB cabs though. This Baer thing looks really promising. I skimmed through both mega threads last night...gosh, I don't need another cab. It just never ends, does it?

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Eublet

So is the ML112 really like a "better db112" like I've heard a few times? I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the db112, but the form factor and weight leave a little to be desired. I've been on the edge between trying to decide if I want to pickup a DB212 or the new Genz Nx2 212. The Nx2 212 easily wins the weight/form factor argument, at an average of 47lbs. It wont have the upper-mid aggression that I love in the DB cabs though. This Baer thing looks really promising. I skimmed through both mega threads last night...gosh, I don't need another cab. It just never ends, does it?

Okay, so now I'm on the "really interested in Baer ML112" Bandwagon.

Remind me again about the weight, size and form factor of the Baer compared to the DB112?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

So is the ML112 really like a "better db112" like I've heard a few times? I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the db112, but the form factor and weight leave a little to be desired. I've been on the edge between trying to decide if I want to pickup a DB212 or the new Genz Nx2 212. The Nx2 212 easily wins the weight/form factor argument, at an average of 47lbs. It wont have the upper-mid aggression that I love in the DB cabs though. This Baer thing looks really promising. I skimmed through both mega threads last night...gosh, I don't need another cab. It just never ends, does it?

I also love the DB112's, and had the opportunity to spend quite a bit of quality time with the ML112. The ML112 is a large 112 (due to the mid driver design) but is a few pounds lighter than the DB112, and is not as deep front to back, nor does it have rear ports like the DB112, resulting in it not taking up as much space on stage.

The ML112 has a handle on the top that can be trouble with some micro heads with their small feet, but Roger nicely designed the cab/logo to look 'good' on its side, and has rubber feet already installed on one side of the cab to allow for it to be set 'vertically' for use with a micro (i.e., it goes from 'wide with a handle on top' for full sized heads to 'thin with no handle on top' for micro's. Nice little design detail there.

The tone is quite a bit brighter up top.... the midrange is kind of shifted up from the mid mid warmth and punch of the DB112 to a bit more of a bright, grindy but still very organic (NOTHING like the top end of a fEARful for example) top end. This can be easily controlled if you have an amp with a fixed upper midrange control centered somewhere around 1K.

IMO, it would be hard to like one (DB112/ML112) and hate the other. Definitely in the same tone universe of 'organic, mid punchy, warm' type cabs. The ML112 is superior for those who include some 'amp or pedal driven' grind or distortion in their sound, given the very 'papercone' voiced mid driver. It also gives you a nice slap tone that sits in a mix nicely (versus the 'bit too much sizzle' of some tweeter loaded cabs).

I'd be happy with either of these cabs. With the TH500, hard to beat those DB112's if you can deal with the size/weight/form factor.

Edit: I do feel that the ML112 will outperform the DB112 in absolute volume given the same wattage input. So, for a single cab solution, I would prefer the ML112. For a double cab solution, either would be great. I like the idea of the DB112/NT112 (or whatever the no tweeter version is called) with the Aguilars, and two of those would be plenty for most things. The DB's really like mid complex/present heads to my ear. Loved mine with the Thunderfunk, the TH450, and the TH500. Really is almost the definition of 'modern meets vintage' to my ear... kind of like a sealed multi 10 cab with a nice, subtle tweeter. Roger's cab gives you a bit of that vibe also, since the mid driver he uses allows for that 'vintage cone break-up' type thing that so many ejoyed with the old JBL 15 loaded cabs. Two flavors of excellent.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by KJung

I also love the DB112's, and had the opportunity to spend quite a bit of quality time with the ML112. The ML112 is a large 112 (due to the mid driver design) but is a few pounds lighter than the DB112, and is not as deep front to back, nor does it have rear ports like the DB112, resulting in it not taking up as much space on stage.

The ML112 has a handle on the top that can be trouble with some micro heads with their small feet, but Roger nicely designed the cab/logo to look 'good' on its side, and has rubber feet already installed on one side of the cab to allow for it to be set 'vertically' for use with a micro (i.e., it goes from 'wide with a handle on top' for full sized heads to 'thin with no handle on top' for micro's. Nice little design detail there.

The tone is quite a bit brighter up top.... the midrange is kind of shifted up from the mid mid warmth and punch of the DB112 to a bit more of a bright, grindy but still very organic (NOTHING like the top end of a fEARful for example) top end. This can be easily controlled if you have an amp with a fixed upper midrange control centered somewhere around 1K.

IMO, it would be hard to like one (DB112/ML112) and hate the other. Definitely in the same tone universe of 'organic, mid punchy, warm' type cabs. The ML112 is superior for those who include some 'amp or pedal driven' grind or distortion in their sound, given the very 'papercone' voiced mid driver. It also gives you a nice slap tone that sits in a mix nicely (versus the 'bit too much sizzle' of some tweeter loaded cabs).

I'd be happy with either of these cabs. With the TH500, hard to beat those DB112's if you can deal with the size/weight/form factor.

Edit: I do feel that the ML112 will outperform the DB112 in absolute volume given the same wattage input. So, for a single cab solution, I would prefer the ML112. For a double cab solution, either would be great. I like the idea of the DB112/NT112 (or whatever the no tweeter version is called) with the Aguilars, and two of those would be plenty for most things. The DB's really like mid complex/present heads to my ear. Loved mine with the Thunderfunk, the TH450, and the TH500. Really is almost the definition of 'modern meets vintage' to my ear... kind of like a sealed multi 10 cab with a nice, subtle tweeter. Roger's cab gives you a bit of that vibe also, since the mid driver he uses allows for that 'vintage cone break-up' type thing that so many ejoyed with the old JBL 15 loaded cabs. Two flavors of excellent.

Another always useful post from my friend Ken! Thanks bro!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Another always useful post from my friend Ken! Thanks bro!

Hope you are doing well and enjoying that new Nordy J!

I had a fun time having the Acme Fullrange, the ML112 and the Thunderchild112 at the house at the same time. All just SO different sounding, and each one does EXACTLY what their designer envisioned. Lots of great stuff out there now. Amazing that the 'off the shelf' DB's (to me), along with Jim Bergantino's HD112 hang pretty well with this impressive crowd to my ears.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Okay, so now I'm on the "really interested in Baer ML112" Bandwagon.

Remind me again about the weight, size and form factor of the Baer compared to the DB112?

From memory, I think a single DB112 was 45 lbs. Not crazy heavy, but in that range things can start being awkward to move around at times.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Another always useful post from my friend Ken! Thanks bro!

Another thing to put the ML112 in context for you. I heard MUCH similarity between the 10 loaded Bergantino AE cabs and the ML112... that same 'tight but slammin' low end and bright but not harsh upper mid presence. If you are still digging your AE410, I won't say that the ML112 sounds identical, but you will definitely feel at home, especially if you dial back the tweeter a smidge on the AE410.

[Eublet]

Ken, I think the upper mid presence of the ML112 could actually be a plus over the DB112, not having heard it. There were times, like with any cab, where the fullness of the low mids in the DB112 could be a bit much in some rooms, and it was challenging to control. Perhaps a little too deep and vintage. Like you, I love the grind of a J bass. I just don't want a harsh tweeter to have to get that to come out. This is ultimately why I sold my Neox 212 because it was a little too smooth, and I started looking into the AE line. The AE212 was a little too deep down low for my tastes, and the AE112 didn't bond with me at all either. I've seen where you think the AE112 is similar to the ML112, which scares me. But the AE112 is VERY different from the DB112 which I love, so it's just a bit confusing.

Either way, with the 10-day trial, I'm just going to go for it. I like the idea of a super-12, and I hate, hate, hate most every 12/6/1 cab I've tried. This one sounds very promising.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by KJung

Another thing to put the ML112 in context for you. I heard MUCH similarity between the 10 loaded Bergantino AE cabs and the ML112... that same 'tight but slammin' low end and bright but not harsh upper mid presence. If you are still digging your AE410, I won't say that the ML112 sounds identical, but you will definitely feel at home, especially if you dial back the tweeter a smidge on the AE410.

The AE410 was the one I never had a chance to try, just because I knew I didn't want a 410 in the back of my head. I think I would have liked that cabinet, or the newer AE210 that stacks vertically.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

Ken, I think the upper mid presence of the ML112 could actually be a plus over the DB112, not having heard it. There were times, like with any cab, where the fullness of the low mids in the DB112 could be a bit much in some rooms, and it was challenging to control. Perhaps a little too deep and vintage. Like you, I love the grind of a J bass. I just don't want a harsh tweeter to have to get that to come out. This is ultimately why I sold my Neox 212 because it was a little too smooth, and I started looking into the AE line. The AE212 was a little too deep down low for my tastes, and the AE112 didn't bond with me at all either. I've seen where you think the AE112 is similar to the ML112, which scares me. But the AE112 is VERY different from the DB112 which I love, so it's just a bit confusing.

Either way, with the 10-day trial, I'm just going to go for it. I like the idea of a super-12, and I hate, hate, hate most every 12/6/1 cab I've tried. This one sounds very promising.

That is why I posted that the DB112's seem to excel with a head that has a reasonable tight low end, lots of warm mids, etc. So, +1. The ML112 KILLED with my Streamliner, while the DB112's sounded a bit mushy and bloated with that head.

The top end of the AE112 and the AE210 (the original models) is somewhat similar. Both a single AE210 or the ML112 will IMO bury the AE112 down low, which makes the AE112 'bright to the point of too much' to me. So, I would minimize any comments I might have made about the AE112 (I don't remember posting that, but if I did, I was probably strictly talking about the upper mid presence).

The AE212 sounds totally different from the rest of the AE line... much smoother, wider, deeper, and has no similarity with the ML112 (or the rest of the AE line for that matter).