Baer Amplification Part 3

**Chef** · #1 01-24-2013, 07:56 AM

Saluki · #2 01-24-2013, 08:10 AM

In with two ML112s!

**Chef** · #3 01-24-2013, 08:12 AM

Eublet · #4 01-24-2013, 08:20 AM

Regarding fancy basses and such, I too was on the quest. I finally decided I loved jazz bass more than anything, but there was one error I had made that took me some time to figure out. I only liked them best when recording. Live they always seemed to get lost in the mix, I think because they have a natural scoop in their voicing. I then found that I enjoy a more even tone live with a touch of a vintage appeal, such as the Lakland 44/55 basses. Then I started using IEM's on a regular basis a few years ago, and that complicated things even more for me, since a jazz bass sounds killer in a good IEM mix, and you get spoiled by that such that playing through an amp/cab can never give you that same level of presence.

The ML112 for me has really helped bridge the gap between all this in a way other cabs didn't really do. It's big, full, articulate, punchy, grindy and present without ever sounding harsh or pingy. I'm able to enjoy my jazz, precision, and Lakland basses through them just like I do with IEM's or studio cans.

The only drawback is that now I'm wondering what all those super fancy modern basses I used to own would sound like with the ML112.

**Chef** · #5 01-24-2013, 08:24 AM

The answer is easy:
Call Valenti, Nordstrand, or Sadowsky, and have a top shelf, fancy topped J built for you.

pjhandlin · #6 01-24-2013, 08:35 AM

Just enough height to the 6" to improve articulation and definition.

**Chef** · #7 01-24-2013, 08:36 AM

I haven't tried that....

GRoberts · #8 01-24-2013, 08:54 AM

HEY!!!! This L- Shaped Baer stack-O'-plenty is very very cool and intriguing! Any reason not to do that? Me LIKEY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjhandlin

Just enough height to the 6" to improve articulation and definition.

KJung · #9 01-24-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRoberts

HEY!!!! This L- Shaped Baer stack-O'-plenty is very very cool and intriguing! Any reason not to do that? Me LIKEY!

I guess the only reason is that it moves those mid drivers out of that sort of line array thing and even farther apart than stacking the cabs in the same orientation. The optimal way to position those mid drivers is the way they are in the ML212... close to each other and in a vertical array (for optimum upper mid spread and least amount of combing, etc.).

However, this is another one of those 'correct on paper' things I believe. I would guess it would slightly impact the even spread of the higher frequencies, but wouldn't be a particularly big deal in live bass guitar backline.

Nice stack!

KJung · #10 01-24-2013, 09:25 AM

Since I put these clips up again per request recently, here are the links for the new thread:

(Clips recorded at 'moderate gig volumes' about 30 degrees off axis, about 10 feet from cab with the Zoom Q3 digital recorder).

Clip 1: Nordstrand VP5 (modern voiced ash/maple 5 string passive P Bass with broken in Dunlop Nickel Wounds) through the Streamliner (representative of the 'fat and tubey side of amp voicings) and the Markbass F500 (representative of the more neutral SS side of amp voicings). I unfortunately didn't do a great job gain matching (I record these clips in real time with very little prep, so a bit rough sometimes), so don't overinterpret that difference in volume and fatness between the two heads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNxT9nRCNwI

Clip 2: Alleva-Coppolo LM5 (ash/maple 70's style J with single coils, broken in Hi Beams) with the F500. Killer combination (just like the Streamliner with the P).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOHr9ulfP30

Clip 3: A-C again with the F500, this time comparing the ML112 to the Berg AE210, to give the listener a feel for the difference between the mid driver versus a very well executed but more traditional tweeter loaded cab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJOeV2jTjIE

pjhandlin · #11 01-24-2013, 09:32 AM

performing on stage in theater setting for cabaret, music review, theme shows- visually the vertical stack looked too... Vertical

Didn't notice too much difference in mids/ high frequency intelligibility.

On paper, not optimal but in practical real world use it worked quite well.

Saluki · #12 01-24-2013, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

The only drawback is that now I'm wondering what all those super fancy modern basses I used to own would sound like with the ML112.

My skjold sounds killer through the ML112s. I tweak the amps more when I am playing my Lull PJ524. Not really a P guy. Thinking about switching the P pickup to a J, which I had routed for and extra pickguard made, just in case.

**Chef** · #13 01-24-2013, 09:35 AM

In theory, the "L" stack should "split the diff" between "horizontal stack is a bit fat" or "too close to the ground for me" and, "vertical is too tall" or "vertical loses some fat due to coupling loss" kinda thing.

I've never tried it.

KJung · #14 01-24-2013, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjhandlin

performing on stage in theater setting for cabaret, music review, theme shows- visually the vertical stack looked too... Vertical

Didn't notice too much difference in mids/ high frequency intelligibility.

On paper, not optimal but in practical real world use it worked quite well.

+1 Hey, good to see you on the site!

rpsands · #15 01-24-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

I haven't tried that....

Probably get better results turning the bottom of the "L" to the side.

**Chef** · #16 01-24-2013, 09:55 AM

I don't understand, sorry...?

pjhandlin · #17 01-24-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

In theory, the "L" stack should "split the diff" between "horizontal stack is a bit fat" or "too close to the ground for me" and, "vertical is too tall" or "vertical loses some fat due to coupling loss" kinda thing.

I've never tried it.

Exactly Chef!!

For high spl I prefer the full vertical stack vs full horizontal.

I only use the L when full horizontal is a bit too thick and fat or if I'm in the mood to try it.

Again I understand that on paper this is not optimal, but then I'm also not handing out frequency plots or dispersion graphs to the audience either.

**Chef** · #18 01-24-2013, 10:05 AM

fwiw, I sometimes use an "ampwedge" to angle the top cab up at me a bit:

pjhandlin · #19 01-24-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Probably get better results turning the bottom of the "L" to the side.

So turn the bottom cab 90 degrees off axis... So top cab front, bottom cab = side fill, toward drums?

I actually tried it once during setup but didn't gig it that way.

Was greedy and wanted more for myself. Will give it a full test sometime.

I assume this works better 'on paper' for mids or high frequency dispersion?

KJung · #20 01-24-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjhandlin

So turn the bottom cab 90 degrees off axis... So top cab front, bottom cab = side fill, toward drums?

I actually tried it once during setup but didn't gig it that way.

Was greedy and wanted more for myself. Will give it a full test sometime.

I assume this works better 'on paper' for mids or high frequency dispersion?

Yeah, that would be using a sledgehammer to swat a fly (i.e., doing something quite extreme to fix a relatively trivial issue, as you found). You are fine the way your are.