Baer Amplification Part 3

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by 313

I have a chance to buy locally a Mesa M6 for a very reasonable price. I have 2 Baer ML112's - presently running through a Walkabout or Streamliner with good results. But, I'm always interested in trying something else, hence my interest in the M6.

Has anybody tried the Baers with the M6? I hear that the M6 is very mid-present, and I'm wondering if that mid-presence combined with the forward mids of the ML112 might be a bad combination. Any thoughts appreciated!

I've heard the combination and found it to be overly bright for my taste. I tend to prefer flatter preamps and I believe the M series Mes'a have a fairly decent top end boost built into them. Probably one of the very amps I wouldn't think to be an ideal match, but it all depends on your taste.

Originally Posted by tbss454

Also interested to hear the answer to this one, and also how the M6 would pair with the less mid-present ml115

My guess is that this would be a much better match.

[Tunaman]

New page... more iBaer info please !!!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Tunaman

New page... more iBaer info please !!!

There is no such thing as the iBaer. It was a joke.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by jasonbraatz

I don't think amps are hard to repair nowadays due to planned obsolesence, but due to the demand for lighter, more powerful and more feature-filled heads.

There are more than a few people in this thread who have said they'd buy Valkyrie if it were class D and lost ten pounds, and you don't lose that weight without using teeny tiny components that are hard to repair.

+1 The main problem with SMT isn't the reliability, it's the serviceability. If you have a problem with a board component, it's a much tougher repair for a local amp tech, who may need to wait for an entire replacement board from the factory to make the repair. The way the Valkyrie is designed, any competent tech who can read a schematic should be able to replace a board component fairly easily. The design is also quite forgiving in that, if a direct replacement part isn't on the shelf, another with close specs will get you up and running again. Of course, there are always going to be instances where a local tech might not have the part needed, but most amp shops should be able to get this amp on the road again in short order. Such is the trade off of with the micro amps. You can't have your 4lb. cake and eat it too, so to speak. Small, light and cheap (relatively speaking) means using SMT components that are harder to repair.

FYI, the Valkyrie was actually class D at one point early on and while it certainly worked and sounded good, it just didn't have the qualities I was looking for. It wasn't until our engineer hooked the preamp up to some old Carver power amp that literally weighed 80lbs. that the "that's it!" moment occurred. The notes all of a sudden had a weight and body to them, with a sweetness to the top end, that I didn't hear in any of the class D modules. After that, the challenge became getting that type of sound into something that would come in under 30lbs.

[Tunaman]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

There is no such thing as the iBaer. It was a joke.

At least the ML412 is real

[Saluki]

Originally Posted by 313

Has anybody tried the Baers with the M6? I hear that the M6 is very mid-present, and I'm wondering if that mid-presence combined with the forward mids of the ML112 might be a bad combination. Any thoughts appreciated!

I ran a M6 for several years with a very upper mid present AE410 and it just killed. I think BGM scoped the M6 and if I remember it is far from flat. Big bottom, spike in the highs and although maybe not scooped the boost in the other areas made it sound sort of scooped to my ear. Very powerful and great presence and a good yin/yang with the AE410. I know Chef has used the M6/ML112 but I am not sure he was a fan either. Just thinking out loud here.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by R Baer

It wasn't until our engineer hooked the preamp up to some old Carver power amp that literally weighed 80lbs. that the "that's it!" moment occurred. The notes all of a sudden had a weight and body to them, with a sweetness to the top end, that I didn't hear in any of the class D modules. After that, the challenge became getting that type of sound into something that would come in under 30lbs.

Hard to beat a well designed piece of lead, that's for sure!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Saluki

I ran a M6 for several years with a very upper mid present AE410 and it just killed. I think BGM scoped the M6 and if I remember it is far from flat. Big bottom, spike in the highs and although maybe not scooped the boost in the other areas made it sound sort of scooped to my ear. Very powerful and great presence and a good yin/yang with the AE410. I know Chef has used the M6/ML112 but I am not sure he was a fan either. Just thinking out loud here.

I also gigged my M6 Carbine with an AE410 which is a rather mid focused/mid forward amp. Yes it worked great in the band mix, but I have since let go of the M6 Carbine and I am much happier with a more organic amp into the Bergie AE410. This leads me to concur with Roger. The Mesa M6 Carbine would not be my first choice of amps to pair with the ML112. This conclusion is based on tonal reports I've read that draw a parallel of the ML112 to a Bergie AE210. This is conjecture on my part since I've not tried a Baer ML112, but I will get that chance ...TOMORROW . The logic however to skip the M6 Carbine with a Baer ML112 (stack) makes sense to my simplistic brain. LOL

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Saluki

I ran a M6 for several years with a very upper mid present AE410 and it just killed. I think BGM scoped the M6 and if I remember it is far from flat. Big bottom, spike in the highs and although maybe not scooped the boost in the other areas made it sound sort of scooped to my ear. Very powerful and great presence and a good yin/yang with the AE410. I know Chef has used the M6/ML112 but I am not sure he was a fan either. Just thinking out loud here.

Yes, and the upper mids to lower treble boost of the M6/9 lines up, in part, with the stronger upper mids put out by the ML112. This may be too much of a good thing, for most. I haven't tried my M6 with the Baers yet, though.

Of course, with the Mesa/Boogie WalkAbout or Titan V-12, the Baers are a match made in heaven!

[R Baer]

And I must admit, that while it doesn't seem to get much love, the Big Block 750 is my favorite Mesa, but I'm sure you could have guessed that.

[Saluki]

Originally Posted by R Baer

And I must admit, that while it doesn't seem to get much love, the Big Block 750 is my favorite Mesa, but I'm sure you could have guessed that.

Roger,

Funny you say that. I owned one once and ever since I picked up the baers I have had the itch to pick one up again. There are a few over in teh classifieds that I have been watching, but hoping I could hold out for a Baer amp.

[Spfairchild]

Many, many pages later from my last comments and questions in this thread, I think I have done enough research, questioning, and general soul searching to arrive at the conclusion that 2 ML112s might just be the way I should go! I was formerly looking for a 1CS (one cab solution), but have been swayed to the modular approach. I was interested in the ML212 before, but I think I can achieve what I want with 2 112s. Basically, I'm trying to get better low end performance at high volumes from a pair of 112s than my SWR Golight 410 will put out. That cab has lots of lows at medium volume, but the lows seem to just disappear when the cab is being pushed very hard, and I need to have the capability of playing that loudly in a very large band without PA support, while still retaining a very respectable bottom end (big latin band). Now I just need to find a couple used ML112s!

As an aside, not to be too heretical in this thread as it sounds like many here are fans of big, heavy transformers in amps, but I recently allowed myself to be convinced that a lead sled must inherently sound better/stronger/louder than a SWPS, and sold my last Genz to buy an Eden WT-800. Long story short, that in no way was accurate, and I'm much happier again with my current ShuttleMAX amp! But heck, class AB vs class D/SMPS is an old argument, and there's no right or wrong! This stuff is so subjective, once really can't say what's better - except for themselves. But I'm always thinking the grass is greener, and my GAS gets the better of me sometimes...

[CTC564]

LOVE my 9.2 through my Baer stack

[jasonbraatz]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

As an aside, not to be too heretical in this thread as it sounds like many here are fans of big, heavy transformers in amps, but I recently allowed myself to be convinced that a lead sled must inherently sound better/stronger/louder than a SWPS, and sold my last Genz to buy an Eden WT-800. Long story short, that in no way was accurate, and I'm much happier again with my current ShuttleMAX amp!

You could have picked two amps voiced more differently than the WT800 and the ShuttleMax, but it would have been hard. I don't think that's a comparison you can draw large conclusions concerning what kind of power topology you like or don't like from at all.

[Spfairchild]

Well, neither was my first AB or SMPS amp, but I did get to thinking that the AB amps must inherently be able to push louder, or that they wouldn't run out of juice the same way certain SMPS amps would, and I found that not to be the case. That's all I meant. You are right, of course, that the 2 amps are not extremely similar, and both were great, but I just didn't perceive any added benefit from again having an amp with a heavy transformer, after the last time I had tried it (with a GK 1001RB-II, I believe) and since switching to lightweight amps. Again, no disrespect to those who prefer one over the other! I guess it really didn't need to be mentioned. This was just my experience. As they say around here, YMMV

[Spfairchild]

But that's all an aside - the real story is I'm psyched to see if I can get my hands on some Baers! These threads have provided a lot of good info for me, and surely for many others.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Spfairchild

..As an aside, not to be too heretical in this thread as it sounds like many here are fans of big, heavy transformers in amps, but I recently allowed myself to be convinced that a lead sled must inherently sound better/stronger/louder than a SWPS, and sold my last Genz to buy an Eden WT-800. Long story short, that in no way was accurate, and I'm much happier again with my current ShuttleMAX amp! But heck, class AB vs class D/SMPS is an old argument, and there's no right or wrong! This stuff is so subjective, once really can't say what's better - except for themselves. But I'm always thinking the grass is greener, and my GAS gets the better of me sometimes...

While I am admittedly a huge "lead sled" fan, I'm in no way against what class D brings to the table, as it has a lot of advantages to be sure. After we finished the Valkyrie's preamp, we were basically trying various power sections to see how they sounded and performed on their own merit. By that I mean, hooking them up to the preamp and evaluating the stand alone tone and performance. IMO, there was simply no comparison between something like the Carver or Crest CA9 we tried and the class D modules. So, we came to the conclusion that getting maximum performance out of a class D module becomes a matter of taking that off the shelf module and developing some clever compression, limiting and EQ circuits to wring the maximum performance and bass friendly tone possible from those modules. A great example of this is what Andy over at GB did with the Shuttle line.

After hearing the Carver and Crest though, it was really just love at first listen. So, we decided right there to go with class A/B and make the Valkyrie the flagship of the line, with a plan to revisit the class D topology at a later time once we had the "Baer sound" firmly established with the Valkyrie. We'll do one up in the future to be sure and I'm excited to start working on it as soon as I can.

[Spfairchild]

Fair enough! You certainly can't debate a personal preference. Thanks, Roger.

[313]

Thanks guys for all of your feedback regarding the M6/ML112 pairing. I love talkbass

[CTC564]

What is the estimated weight of the Valkyrie?