Baer Amplification Part 3

[Chef]

Thanks for that link...I did not know this was going on; how cool!

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Chef

Thanks for that link...I did not know this was going on; how cool!

I'm guessing the De-Monique is a pricey sucker? Where do these live sonically? Any comparison to a Tecamp Puma900? or ??

[Eublet]

Gary - that is the most depressing thing I've heard in ages. No joke!!!!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

I'm guessing the De-Monique is a pricey sucker? Where do these live sonically? Any comparison to a Tecamp Puma900? or ??

Not cheap:

http://www.juleamps.com/shop/index.php

Most of the tunes here are Monique into the power section of the Puma into the ML112

https://soundcloud.com/nostatic-live

like this one: https://soundcloud.com/nostatic-live/caravans

I just got the Minnie power amp and only have used it in my home studio. I have a tracking session at a proper studio tomorrow but anticipate going direct. I'll gig it Sunday. My initial A/B is that surprisingly enough the power amp sections sound different. Running Monique into the Puma effects return is a bit edgier than Monique into the Demeter. But have gobs of headroom.

As for tone of Monique, it is very tube feel/tone/vibe but not like the Streamliner and especially not like any of the "toss a 12AX7 in front and call it good" amps. Actually the Valkyrie and Monique can sound similar when the Valkyrie tube section is switched in but that is because Roger did his tube application unlike other amps.

The eq on Monique is not surgical tone shaping. You can change the character but you're not going to get radical shifts. The sensitivity control moves it from warm/clean to a bit edgy like a clean SVT running hard. No overdrive to speak of - just complexity.

Frankly I typically run the eq flat. I love the Puma and it is more flexible tonally but the feel and sound of Monique just slays me. The Rob Allen sounds unbelievable through the rig. I think the ML112 is the perfect cab to pair with the Monique as you get warmth with articulation and bounce.

Plus Monique looks cool. I'm a sucker for good industrial design. Right now I think there are three amp setups that speak to me: Monique/Demeter (or most any power section), Puma 500/900 (if you want smallest setup with flexible eq), and Valkyrie if you want the flexible eq *and* a tube vibe option. Only downside on Valkyrie for me is the form factor.

[GRoberts]

Thanks Nostatic. Great info indeed! Your clips with the Monique are absolutely superb! Just a bit tooooo boutique for me. But the birdcage design is rather cool in a Steam Punk kind-o-way!

Originally Posted by nostatic

Not cheap:

http://www.juleamps.com/shop/index.php

Most of the tunes here are Monique into the power section of the Puma into the ML112

https://soundcloud.com/nostatic-live

like this one: https://soundcloud.com/nostatic-live/caravans

I just got the Minnie power amp and only have used it in my home studio. I have a tracking session at a proper studio tomorrow but anticipate going direct. I'll gig it Sunday. My initial A/B is that surprisingly enough the power amp sections sound different. Running Monique into the Puma effects return is a bit edgier than Monique into the Demeter. But have gobs of headroom.

As for tone of Monique, it is very tube feel/tone/vibe but not like the Streamliner and especially not like any of the "toss a 12AX7 in front and call it good" amps. Actually the Valkyrie and Monique can sound similar when the Valkyrie tube section is switched in but that is because Roger did his tube application unlike other amps.

The eq on Monique is not surgical tone shaping. You can change the character but you're not going to get radical shifts. The sensitivity control moves it from warm/clean to a bit edgy like a clean SVT running hard. No overdrive to speak of - just complexity.

Frankly I typically run the eq flat. I love the Puma and it is more flexible tonally but the feel and sound of Monique just slays me. The Rob Allen sounds unbelievable through the rig. I think the ML112 is the perfect cab to pair with the Monique as you get warmth with articulation and bounce.

Plus Monique looks cool. I'm a sucker for good industrial design. Right now I think there are three amp setups that speak to me: Monique/Demeter (or most any power section), Puma 500/900 (if you want smallest setup with flexible eq), and Valkyrie if you want the flexible eq *and* a tube vibe option. Only downside on Valkyrie for me is the form factor.

[Tugboat]

For any of the non Baer guys checking out this thread and thinking about becoming Baer guys, I have a virtually brand new ML112 w/ Baer cover I'm looking to sell. Price will be dependant on shipping location, local pick up, etc. If you're local please feel free to come give the Baer a whirl, I've got a Monique, a few nice basses, come.for a test drive. And since you're wondering, best cab I have ever heard. Ever. I have two, selling one to get an ML212. I actually had a brief discussion about this with Roger, don't worry, you won't be taking money from him you're just redirecting through me and making him more money. Anyone interested shoot me a PM, I'm about 45 minutes from Manhattan in Tuxedo, NY.

Ken

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by nostatic

.. My initial A/B is that surprisingly enough the power amp sections sound different...

I can't tell you how many heated debates I've had here on TB with people who swear that power is power and that anyone claiming different is just blowing marketing hot air. I've heard enough different power amps over the years to know that the different executions yield different results in how an amp sounds and response to bass signals. I've also had the good fortune to work with a few amazingly talented amp engineers over the last few years and they all tell me that power amp design has a huge impact on the overall tone and feel of a bass amp. Kind of like that crowd over on the bass section that claims that different woods make no difference in the sound of your instrument. They probably don't buy the whole global warming thing either, but that's a whole other story.

[vin*tone]

^^ haha. Thank god we don't go there.

[chuck3]

Originally Posted by Tugboat

For any of the non Baer guys checking out this thread and thinking about becoming Baer guys, I have a virtually brand new ML112 w/ Baer cover I'm looking to sell. Price will be dependant on shipping location, local pick up, etc. If you're local please feel free to come give the Baer a whirl, I've got a Monique, a few nice basses, come.for a test drive. And since you're wondering, best cab I have ever heard. Ever. I have two, selling one to get an ML212. I actually had a brief discussion about this with Roger, don't worry, you won't be taking money from him you're just redirecting through me and making him more money. Anyone interested shoot me a PM, I'm about 45 minutes from Manhattan in Tuxedo, NY.

Ken

ah, wow, you are halfway between the two locations where I spend my time. Thing is, I am thinking about the ML212 as well. I'd like to get a single cab for my higher-volume gigs. What an agonizing decision.

[Tugboat]

Originally Posted by chuck3

ah, wow, you are halfway between the two locations where I spend my time. Thing is, I am thinking about the ML212 as well. I'd like to get a single cab for my higher-volume gigs. What an agonizing decision.

Well, I have a pair of ML112's, give them a whirl alone and together, get a feel for what your dealing with. No pressure to buy, no harm no foul, just helping a brother out.

Ken

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by Tugboat

For any of the non Baer guys checking out this thread and thinking about becoming Baer guys, I have a virtually brand new ML112 w/ Baer cover I'm looking to sell. Price will be dependant on shipping location, local pick up, etc. If you're local please feel free to come give the Baer a whirl, I've got a Monique, a few nice basses, come.for a test drive. And since you're wondering, best cab I have ever heard. Ever. I have two, selling one to get an ML212. I actually had a brief discussion about this with Roger, don't worry, you won't be taking money from him you're just redirecting through me and making him more money. Anyone interested shoot me a PM, I'm about 45 minutes from Manhattan in Tuxedo, NY.

Ken

I will know more after my gig on Friday. I'll pick up my Baer tomorrow, but head straight to the Hilton resort for a solo guitar gig I am doing. So I won't get much of a chance to get acquainted until Friday. ..shhhh, I am working from home on Friday before my bass gig that night.

[chuck3]

Originally Posted by Tugboat

Well, I have a pair of ML112's, give them a whirl alone and together, get a feel for what your dealing with. No pressure to buy, no harm no foul, just helping a brother out.

Ken

understood. And thanks for the opportunity.

Not sure about this weekend's schedule yet. Also, if I show up in Tuxedo, will the lady in your avatar turn around?

[jasonbraatz]

Originally Posted by Tugboat

For any of the non Baer guys checking out this thread and thinking about becoming Baer guys, I have a virtually brand new ML112 w/ Baer cover I'm looking to sell. Price will be dependant on shipping location, local pick up, etc. If you're local please feel free to come give the Baer a whirl, I've got a Monique, a few nice basses, come.for a test drive. And since you're wondering, best cab I have ever heard. Ever. I have two, selling one to get an ML212. I actually had a brief discussion about this with Roger, don't worry, you won't be taking money from him you're just redirecting through me and making him more money. Anyone interested shoot me a PM, I'm about 45 minutes from Manhattan in Tuxedo, NY.

Ken

Are you getting the 212 to run a 312 setup?

[B String]

Originally Posted by jasonbraatz

Are you getting the 212 to run a 312 setup?

That would be so freakin sick......and LOUD!

[Chef]

I haven't run a Baer 112/212, But, I have run a GK 112/212, and, it's substantively fatter than either alone, and I like it quite a bit.

[maisbass]

I totally agree that a power section makes a difference in an amp. I've been trying my preamp into various fx returns of amps such as the TH500, EBS Neo Gorm, Mark Bass Little Mark, Crest pro5200, and the Mesa Carbine M6, all through an EPI UL212.

Each one had tonal differences, but out of all of them, the Mesa blew them all out of the water. While the Mesa sounded a bit darker, which is funny because when you go through its pre its such a bright amp, it was the fattest, most responsive, and punchiest of all. I have still yet met a class D amp that compares power section wise. Unfortunately for me the Mesa is overkill for my application so I will be parting with it.

My next test will be into the return of a Genz Benz streamliner 900.

-Mais

[KJung]

Originally Posted by maisbass

I totally agree that a power section makes a difference in an amp. I've been trying my preamp into various fx returns of amps such as the TH500, EBS Neo Gorm, Mark Bass Little Mark, Crest pro5200, and the Mesa Carbine M6, all through an EPI UL212.

Each one had tonal differences, but out of all of them, the Mesa blew them all out of the water. While the Mesa sounded a bit darker, which is funny because when you go through its pre its such a bright amp, it was the fattest, most responsive, and punchiest of all. I have still yet met a class D amp that compares power section wise. Unfortunately for me the Mesa is overkill for my application so I will be parting with it.

My next test will be into the return of a Genz Benz streamliner 900.

-Mais

Remember that each amp has a different signal path and gain structure associated with the effects return. You are not necessarily testing 'power amps' with your experiments. For example, if I remember correctly, the markbass effects loop is pre EQ, and as another example, the Mesa MOSFET tube driver is post effects loop, etc., etc., etc.

What you have found is that the effects return sounds quite different across various amps. Also, one of the reasons the Mesa sounds so huge is that Mesa uses virtually no hi passing. LOTS going on here versus pure 'power amp design'.

That being said, there are massively different executions of power amp integration with the entire system. Power management and limiting, gain structure, hi passing, etc., etc. The topology of a power amp is really not a valid nor useful way to choose an amp. Compare, for example, the low end slam of the Class D/SMPS Glockenklang Blue Soul with the class A/B/Transformer based Thunderfunk TF750a. Roughly the same wattage. If you did that comparison, you would most likely post 'class A/B amps suck compared to class D'! It is ALL about execution.

[maisbass]

As always, thanks for the insight! So hopefully I will be happy when I pickup the Genz Benz Streamliner 900!

Man 212's and a 112? I cant even imagine what that would sound like. Probably blow the pants right off you when you drop a low B.... Or your Band Leader's toupee! WOW!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by maisbass

As always, thanks for the insight! So hopefully I will be happy when I pickup the Genz Benz Streamliner 900!

Man 212's and a 112? I cant even imagine what that would sound like. Probably blow the pants right off you when you drop a low B.... Or your Band Leader's toupee! WOW!

That is a nice match-up with the Baer cabs... fat and warm and still articulate. In my A/Bing of the Streamliner900 with the Mesa M6 (I agree with you, I don't know what drives the performance of that amp, but it is stunningly massive!), the Streamliner cab keep up volume-wise (although remember the Streamliner uses an audiotaper master volume pot, so you have to crank that master to get it to open up, versus the 'off versus screaming' linear master volume execution of the M6), but the strict hi passing and the relaxed top end of the Streamliner results in it sounding much less 'huge and in your face' versus the big, uncontrolled low end and massive upper mid/treble brightness of the M6. VERY different heads.

Love the Streamliner 900/ML112 pairing with a P Bass... fat, warm, articulate. Beautiful!

If you miss the huge low end and aggressiveness of your M6, you might check out the GK MB800... similar 'more of everything/over the top' voicing down low and up top. A bit too much of a good thing for me with the Baer cabs, since they are so present in the upper midrange, but it is an impressive, aggressive sort of voicing.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

I will know more after my gig on Friday. I'll pick up my Baer tomorrow, but head straight to the Hilton resort for a solo guitar gig I am doing. So I won't get much of a chance to get acquainted until Friday. ..shhhh, I am working from home on Friday before my bass gig that night.

Keep in mind, that cab does benefit from a little breaking in...