Bag End S15X-D coaxial dispersion

[kringle77]

To anyone who used the bag end s15x-d cab, how is the horizontal dispersion with this cab? It's crossed up pretty high, pretty much where the woofer on axis response drops off. I don't have much experience with coax drivers and wondered what the performance is like. If it just has alot of top end on-axis (standing in front of the cab) but none off-axis (standing off to the side) then, there really isn't much point in the cab.

[billfitzmaurice]

No fifteen has useful off-axis response above 1.5kHz, so that's the highest that it should be crossed over to a high frequency element. That applies to both coaxial drivers and separates.

[JGR]

Did you get your cabs yet?

[AMJBASS]

I have had the S15XD and a couple of S15D's(non coax). IMO the coax S15XD gets a bit lost in higher volume situations pretty quickly although it sounds quite good a low volume. The S15D actually has enough high end response that I didn't miss the coax driver when gigging. The design is older, but I still think these cabinets sound just great!

[kringle77]

No, they will arrive tomorow. I was just curious about the coaxial versions. At home, at low volumes, I often like more top end. The gig is very different of course. Who knows, maybe I'll like the pair of s15-d cabs so much that I'll use those instead of the berg. I can see the BE's being useful in the winter when rolling the nv610 through the snow isn't a great option.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kringle77

To anyone who used the bag end s15x-d cab, how is the horizontal dispersion with this cab? It's crossed up pretty high, pretty much where the woofer on axis response drops off. I don't have much experience with coax drivers and wondered what the performance is like. If it just has alot of top end on-axis (standing in front of the cab) but none off-axis (standing off to the side) then, there really isn't much point in the cab.

Gigged one of those for years. That cab has a voicing of attenuated deep low end, nice and even from the lower mids through the mid mids, and a dip in the upper mids (hence, the 'smooth' sound of the cab... described by many as 'warm and punchy). The 'x' version provides a nice, crisp upper treble response. The cab doesn't have an attenuator. When you combine the 'x' version with the non 'x' version, the balance of the top end is absolutely beautiful. Using just the 'x' alone can result in a bit too much sizzle, so you need to make sure you have the EQ power (either through a passive tone control on the bass or a lo pass thing like the Markbass VLE) to control that.

The cab sounds very similar on and off axis, since that upper midrange response that is most impacted (that kind of 2K thing) really isn't voiced into that cab in the first place.

Small, loud, punchy, heavy. To me a 'better' execution of that tone is the TC RS210. Similar warm tone, a bit smoother crossover/coax with an attenuator, and the rear porting is better executed. Just as loud, lighter, and very reasonably priced, and a bit more upper mid response if you want it in a vertical format. IMO!

[JGR]

Can't comment too much on the X version as I only played one briefly in the store, but I find the regular S15-D version to be pretty grindy and aggressive (and even) through the upper mids and low treble, and my bet is that you will have no desire for additional top end. They are the brightest non-tweetersd cabs I have played/owned by far. I think you will be suprised if you A/B the little stack with the NV610. The Bags are brighter, significantly louder, and punchier in the low mids, with a very similar response to the sealed cabs. While they aren't lightweight by today's standards, they are in easy carry in each hand with their large handles and compact dimensions. I've assaulted Fuzzbass, Parsons, and Sliderbass with the little stack, and I'm sure they would agree!

[kringle77]

N I C E ! Every word of that description makes me sweat. Thinking about how I'd love to have a vertical pair of those on each side of the stage. Yes, I know that would cause some filtering issues but, so cool. In case anyone didn't know, I use in ears so my nv610 cab sits out front with Jbl prx635 top sitting on it, the other side of the stage is the same top sitting pole mounted on a jbl prx sub. This works so well and really gets my sound out front so, a stack of bag ends on each side is more of the same. Just thinking out loud. I wouldn't need that much power hardly ever. Plus, I'd probably have to buy a shuttle 9.0 to use as a power amp slave to my 9.2

[57pbass]

I have been using the S 15 D stack for a few years now... they are surprisingly loud for their size and have great projection with warmth and clarity. I had a friend of mine sit in on a few tunes and the bass was pumping in the audience.
I use an Eden WT550 and a Nash P Bass....

[JGR]

Yup, as of late, I've been thinking about getting a couple more and running a quad; I figure I would just put them next to each other and splay them. I have absolutely no reason or need to do it, other than it is fun running large amounts of power to large amounts of speakers, and roll with the spirit of excess. I actually did own a quad of them for a very short time, and it is insanely loud, punchy, crushing... beautiful.

[kringle77]

JGR, you are a sick man. You are mind kind of man. Here's to the spirit of excess!

[JGR]

Hell yes!

[KJung]

TBer Mikebass (amazing player) uses a single 15 Bag End cube (no tweeter) and a Shuttle 9, and it sounds wonderful. Nice growl and grind, lots of volume, not a tone of deep low end, but still full and plenty of nice upper bass that sounds great in a mix.

Amazing that these cabs have been in production for decades, and other than the weight, are still quite competitive to other small cab executions today.

The Genz or Eden pairing with these is very good!

[kringle77]

The descriptions that I've been getting sound sort of like an eden d210-xlt with the horn turned off. But maybe more even. I was just looking for some smaller cabs to have at home or for jams but, now Im really getting excited for these to arrive. I prefer sealed cabs so, the I'll probably like the low end and if they are brighter than the nv610, thats great too because I put an 8" mid in my berg for more top end.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kringle77

The descriptions that I've been getting sound sort of like an eden d210-xlt with the horn turned off. But maybe more even. I was just looking for some smaller cabs to have at home or for jams but, now Im really getting excited for these to arrive. I prefer sealed cabs so, the I'll probably like the low end and if they are brighter than the nv610, thats great too because I put an 8" mid in my berg for more top end.

That is a reasonably good description. I actually replaced my Eden 210XLT with the Bag End 15 'x + non x' stack (although I used only one much more than the full stack). I drove it with the Eden WT400 (the modified WT300 from way back when), and it sounded great.... punchy, and again that tweeter was very nice also.

[kringle77]

From looking at the specs and frequency response of the eminence Delta15A, the bag end driver must be a very close OEM version. That driver looks very bright and has a low x-max which in the " Delta15A Small Vented Cab " plans, would sound nearly sealed. Has anyone used this driver for bass in a similar cab before. Im not interested in building one but, it's a curiosity. That delta 12a specs look like what people describe for the bag end as well. I figured that at some point, someone has used the 15 for a replacement in their bag end.

[andrew]

Originally Posted by JGR

think you will be surprised if you A/B the little stack with the NV610.

How does two BE S15 cabs stacked compare to an NV cab in terms of size? Taller/shorter, wider, deeper?

[3rdcurve]

Originally Posted by andrew

How does two BE S15 cabs stacked compare to an NV cab in terms of size? Taller/shorter, wider, deeper?

Don't know about the berg, but the bag stack is 37" tall, 18.5" wide, and around 15" deep. Both cabs fit into the hatch of a focus.

[JGR]

Originally Posted by kringle77

From looking at the specs and frequency response of the eminence Delta15A, the bag end driver must be a very close OEM version. That driver looks very bright and has a low x-max which in the " Delta15A Small Vented Cab " plans, would sound nearly sealed. Has anyone used this driver for bass in a similar cab before. Im not interested in building one but, it's a curiosity. That delta 12a specs look like what people describe for the bag end as well. I figured that at some point, someone has used the 15 for a replacement in their bag end.

I don't think it is very close to the stock Em drivers. The Bag End driver is cast frame and has a much larger magnet than the 15A. They look very similar to the Pro version, but the Xmax is much lower. I agree they appear to have a similar high end profile, but I wouldn't try these drivers in the BE cab. Someone posted the TS specs BE gave them recently, and they said the Xmax was only 1.8mm. Hard to believe as they can take a lot of power and really crank without farting. They take EQ really well across the frequency range, and you can really dial in some low end. Folks have put all kinds of speakers in these cabs, but I say run if they don't put in the OEM. I know one guy tried one of the recommended Eminence ones and then the OEM, and he saw a big difference. Also, these suckers crunch beautifully with guitar, even better than my Celestions, so I think the cone may be different. Most of the bass drivers are a lot cleaner in the top end; the BE is very harmonically rich. I've tried the Delta 12A with guitar and it didn't crunch very well.


It would be cool to try the 12A in those cab plans and see how they compare. The vent length is 3/4" which would explain why BE just cust a hole in the cab since that is roughly the thickness of the wood, but they only have one port whereas the Eminence plan calls for two. Makes me want to try it though.

[JGR]

Originally Posted by andrew

How does two BE S15 cabs stacked compare to an NV cab in terms of size? Taller/shorter, wider, deeper?

Visually, pretty much dead on height and depth, just narrower.