Bagging the DI, looking for a budget bass mic

luvpbass · #1 05-14-2011, 09:18 PM

I feel lucky that our soundman loves to pump up the bass in our mix. But he's always complaining about the lack of signal from my sansamp rbi's di. So I'm thinking about micing my cab, which we tried with an sm58 last gig (it's all we had in the mic box.) I'm a bit broke right now so I was thinking about one of the following budget mics. Any thoughts, or other suggestions.

CAD KBM412 - cost about $50 online.
MXL Kicker 55 - about $100
Sennheiser e602ii - about $160
Shure SM57 -- about $100

I know it's said that you get what you pay for, but there are cases where you pay for a name. Is there dramatic differences between these mics or will they just about do the same thing.

KramerBassFan · #2 05-14-2011, 09:27 PM

How did the SM58 sound? They are cheap and rugged.

rhopper · #3 05-14-2011, 09:27 PM

I like the standard Shure SM57 because it very durable, has a predictable sound and any sound guy should know what to do with this mic as it is an industry standard.

Pandabass · #4 05-14-2011, 09:29 PM

Lack of signal from an RBI sounds like either a gain stage problem between the RBI and the mains OR a malfunctioning RBI. Doesn't the RBI have a variable output to the XLR?

luvpbass · #5 05-14-2011, 09:40 PM

The rbi does have a variable di, and it works fine (was back to tech21 for a cold solder on the input jack and all checked out). if enough channels are present, i'll di and use a mic.

how about the cad or the mxl i mentioned. anybody like these?

Passinwind · #6 05-14-2011, 09:48 PM

The E602 is pretty scooped, I didn't like mine for bass. OK for kick though, IMO. I had the original one, not the series II though.

cableguy · #7 05-14-2011, 10:00 PM

I just sold my RBI and part of me is already regretting it. Every soundman whose mixed us loved the tone from my RBI. It was usually a little hot, but you can turn it down on the front panel. Is it the signal strenght or the sound/tone he dislikes. You also have a clean signal out as well. If you have two channels open try running both that way he can use either or a mix of the two. Just a thought.

JimmyM · #8 05-15-2011, 03:35 AM

i'd do a di for the lows below 120 hz and a 57 for everything else. i'd say if $160 is the most you can spend, you're better off just using what you have and taking up two channels, and then coming back to it when you have more like $300-400 to spend. however, i always thought the sansamp stuff had plenty of gain on tap. i'm a little surprised it's not got enough for your soundman.

wcriley · #9 05-15-2011, 06:04 AM

Anyone tried a Shure PG52 on a bass cab? $115 would fit the OP's budget.

craig.p · #10 05-15-2011, 06:28 AM

Haven't tried one myself, but if I were a sound man I might have a problem with the mic making EQ decisions for me:

I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, just to go into it with your eyes wide open and with the sound man's approval before you plunk down your cash.

staindbass · #11 05-15-2011, 06:39 AM

those mics will not reproduce low end anywhere as good as the DI. you are better off with a cheap DI than a cheap mic. if the sans amp wont put out enough, put a separate di after the sansamp. johnny a.

wcriley · #12 05-15-2011, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

Haven't tried one myself, but if I were a sound man I might have a problem with the mic making EQ decisions for me.

I've never mic'd a bass cab, but every (or nearly every) mic makes EQ decisions.

Here are curves for some of the mics the OP is considering:

SM57

MXL Kicker 55

CAD KBM412

MrDOS · #13 05-15-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staindbass

those mics will not reproduce low end anywhere as good as the DI. you are better off with a cheap DI than a cheap mic. if the sans amp wont put out enough, put a separate di after the sansamp. johnny a.

I agree here; a "good" DI from eBay will cost less than "good" mic for bass. In my experience, all but the MXL (never used it) just don't cut it for bass guitar in a rock band.

craig.p · #14 05-15-2011, 07:25 AM

> every (or nearly every) mic makes EQ decisions

"Nearly every" is the key concept. The trick is for the OP and the sound man to decide beforehand what's going to work best. There are several deciding factors in play. Flat mics are available, but I'm not sure at what bargain price points. My own standard was and still is the RE20 but of course now we're talking serious investment.

Not to kick this off too far left, but there's a third option of dividing down the amp's speaker output and running that signal into a direct box. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were direct boxes that include the divider internally. Only problem there might be amp noise, but it might be worth a try.

gillento · #15 05-15-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staindbass

those mics will not reproduce low end anywhere as good as the DI. you are better off with a cheap DI than a cheap mic. if the sans amp wont put out enough, put a separate di after the sansamp. johnny a.

+100

TripleDouble · #16 05-15-2011, 08:34 AM

Spend some time with your soundman exploring the gain structure of the Rbi, his board and his outboard crap and tweak your DI's eq and output to suit his needs. Unless the sansamp is broken they sound good with plenty of lows and loudness (other than being a bit scooped). No mic in your budget will sound consistently as good as a DI for just one channel. If you just plain ol dont like the sansamp, there are tons of other di choices <$200. If you have 2 channels, just use a 57 for the mids and hi end, they sound pretty cool for that. But beware of phase issues, my vote is always to keep things as simple as possible to cut down on the wildcard gremlin variables lurking in live sound situations.

TripleDouble · #17 05-15-2011, 08:37 AM

Oh, and if you insist on a mic, B52's are cool

prd004 · #18 05-15-2011, 08:57 AM

The E602 is a kick mic, I don't reccoment using kick mics on bass guitar they are specifically voiced for bass drums: super lows for the woof and real highs for the snap of the beater, everything else is scooped out. You need mids for a bass guitar.

On your budget, Jimmy M's proposal is my favorite, DI combined with an SM57 is a nice combo. I don't like a 57 alone.

But my preference is a Sennheiser MD 421, I don't know if you can afford a used one but you might want to look into it.

allexcosta · #19 05-15-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i'd do a di for the lows below 120 hz and a 57 for everything else.

+1...

This sounds a million bucks and doesn't cost much...

Session1969 · #20 05-15-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvpbass

I feel lucky that our soundman loves to pump up the bass in our mix. But he's always complaining about the lack of signal from my sansamp rbi's di. So I'm thinking about micing my cab, which we tried with an sm58 last gig (it's all we had in the mic box.) I'm a bit broke right now so I was thinking about one of the following budget mics. Any thoughts, or other suggestions.

CAD KBM412 - cost about $50 online.
MXL Kicker 55 - about $100
Sennheiser e602ii - about $160
Shure SM57 -- about $100

I know it's said that you get what you pay for, but there are cases where you pay for a name. Is there dramatic differences between these mics or will they just about do the same thing.

First off, the AKG D112 is the only mic to consider as a mic for a bass cab. Second, I used the rbi for years as my preamp and my di. Interestingly enough, I always had to engage the buffer on the back to appease the sound men, so there should be no signal problem if it's working properly. You have what alot of pros use.