Bas cab selection for tube amp

beardedclam · #1 02-06-2011, 09:05 AM

Hi guys, I have heard a lot of talk regarding using a bass tube head with the appropriate cab. The thought is that tube heads have a low damping factor therefore they cannot control bass reflex ported cabs, nor should you use high excursion drivers.

I am pretty sure there is no steadfast rule especially considering that amps and cab are in essence an extension of the instrument (highly subjective); however I’d like to get your opinions on this.

I have a Mesa Boogie 400+ and I am still searching for that “perfect” cab. This amp in particular was originally intended to be mated with a ported 2x15 (so there goes that theory?). I once spoke to a guy who had an Eden XLT 410 and used a tube bass head and he said the amp could not control the drivers – they extended too far (looking like a sub in the back of a Honda civic -if you catch my drift).

Not to play devil’s advocate but….The Traynor YBA200 (tube head) is mated with the TC808 (8x8” cab with high excursion drivers), I have never heard it but I would think that if these two pieces of gear are marketed together they must sound good????

I'd love to hear your thoughts, oppinions etc please.

Laurent · #2 02-06-2011, 09:20 AM

In general, sealed cabs sound great with tube heads.
I have used a Traynor YBA 200-2 with an Ampeg AV210 with great results.

maevinj · #3 02-06-2011, 09:49 AM

The best sound I get out of my yba200-2 is when I hook it up to my ampeg 410he.

beardedclam · #4 02-06-2011, 10:16 AM

That is interesting - the Ampeg 410he is a ported cab - do you find it "boomy"?

RickenBoogie · #5 02-06-2011, 11:08 AM

The 410he is a sealed cab. The 410hlf is ported. And, just for another perspective, Mesa's old Deisel cabs were also ported, and sounded fantastic paired with a 400+.

JGR · #6 02-06-2011, 11:28 AM

I would look at the Berg NV's, Orange OBC115, or Bag End S15D.

beardedclam · #7 02-06-2011, 11:46 AM

Thanks for info (re: Ampeg he is sealed). I used to run and Ampeg 810e and I liked the punchiness but was a bit turned off by the lack of clarity, yes it is clear but not like a ported cab with a tweeter. I think I'd probably be more satisfied with a ported hi-fi ish (not too hi-fi like a swr, more mid hi-fi like an eden) cab. My only worry is the relatuion ship between tube poer and high excursion speakers - will they over extend?

RickenBoogie · #8 02-06-2011, 12:03 PM

Well, ANY amp can over do it with ANY cab, it's more about how much low eq you boost in that reguard. I wouldn't sweat it too much, just use common sense, and listen for any straining. Should be just fine.

kosmicwizard · #9 02-06-2011, 12:03 PM

When I only drive one cab. I think my MESA/Boogie BASS 400 (non-plus) sounds better with my ported Ampeg 2x15E, however, I think my Ampeg SVT II (non-pro) sounds better with my 8x10SE ... I don't know why. Cheers.

beardedclam · #10 02-06-2011, 12:54 PM

I appreciate your post about the Mes 400 and the ported 15 cab. I have heard something similar that the mesa 400 and 400+ work well with ported cabs. I am getting a lot of good info here - thanks

christw · #11 02-06-2011, 01:13 PM

Psh, wives tales. My SVT-II was never boomy with my Genz Benz 610 no matter how loud I ran it or what tone I used. It would do fat bottom all day long and never, ever bordered on boomy or come close to farting. It certainly got loud though. (The cabinet will also take my 1001RB-II running LOUD into it without any hint of stressing!) It's like getting punched in the ear.

44me · #12 02-06-2011, 02:20 PM

It's highly dependent on both the particular amp and cab, but in general tube amps have higher output impedance than SS (less damping), and ported caps rely more on low source impedance for proper operation than sealed. I spent some time exploring this with my DB359 a few years back. I tend not to play in very loud situations, so I didn't have any issues with drivers bottoming out, but I did have a lot of issues with uneven response in the lower octave (4 string). For a while I had the ports on my GS212 closed off, which evened things out quite a bit, but did give up a little on the lowest notes. I've had the opportunity to try this amp with a few sealed cabs at jams. In general, sealed cabs provided more even response, but not quite the full bottom of GS212 with the ports open. For a while I toyed with the idea of getting a large sealed cab, but my back kept telling me no. I've since gone the route of much lighter weight gear and the DB359 only comes out occasionally.

beardedclam · #13 02-06-2011, 02:34 PM

44me, what you are saying makes sense. I am hopin that I can find the perfect ported cab to match my Mesa 400+. I like the GS212, great sounding cab but I am very concearned about the drivers over-extending - as you mentioned. A guy is selling a Yorkville Xc808 (8x8" cab), it is supposed to be paired with a tube amp (yba200) from the factory - I am guessing it will work with tube power

christw · #14 02-06-2011, 03:01 PM

Try your 400+ with cabinets and see what sounds good instead of worrying based on conjecture. 500 watts is 500 watts. It doesn't matter if it's provided by a solid state amplifier or a tube one. If the speakers are jumping around and the sound is poor, something is wrong. (One might be out of phase!)

You don't need to buy a cabinet that's marketed with a tube amp, that's just silly. As well, the 400+ was not designed to be mated to a 2x15 cabinet. (I would venture a guess that the Mesa amp is designed to work with preexisting Mesa cabs though!)

beardedclam · #15 02-06-2011, 03:07 PM

There is not much to choose from herean north of the border without driving a couple hours that's why I am looking for input from those that have a tube head

Tajue17 · #16 02-06-2011, 03:08 PM

my 400+ fits perfect with the Powerhouse 1000 cab it came with,, I tried it on my 2 bagends but the got a little distorted at higher volume but they are 8ohm too so maybe thats why... I'd really like to try my 400+ with a shroeder cab though!

beardedclam · #17 02-06-2011, 03:11 PM

Schroeder - I have heard so many good things about them , never tried one though. the powerhouse, that's a 4x10 and a 15" in the same cab correct?, How is it to lug around?

TomB · #18 02-06-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

Try your 400+ with cabinets and see what sounds good instead of worrying based on conjecture. 500 watts is 500 watts. It doesn't matter if it's provided by a solid state amplifier or a tube one. If the speakers are jumping around and the sound is poor, something is wrong. (One might be out of phase!)

You don't need to buy a cabinet that's marketed with a tube amp, that's just silly. As well, the 400+ was not designed to be mated to a 2x15 cabinet. (I would venture a guess that the Mesa amp is designed to work with preexisting Mesa cabs though!)

What he said....

Red Planet · #19 02-06-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardedclam

Hi guys, I have heard a lot of talk regarding using a bass tube head with the appropriate cab. The thought is that tube heads have a low damping factor therefore they cannot control bass reflex ported cabs, nor should you use high excursion drivers.

I am pretty sure there is no steadfast rule especially considering that amps and cab are in essence an extension of the instrument (highly subjective); however I’d like to get your opinions on this.

I have a Mesa Boogie 400+ and I am still searching for that “perfect” cab. This amp in particular was originally intended to be mated with a ported 2x15 (so there goes that theory?). I once spoke to a guy who had an Eden XLT 410 and used a tube bass head and he said the amp could not control the drivers – they extended too far (looking like a sub in the back of a Honda civic -if you catch my drift).

Not to play devil’s advocate but….The Traynor YBA200 (tube head) is mated with the TC808 (8x8” cab with high excursion drivers), I have never heard it but I would think that if these two pieces of gear are marketed together they must sound good????

I'd love to hear your thoughts, oppinions etc please.

Back in the day when I was insane and did not mind busting my rear end moving this stuff...... I used to run a Mesa Powerhouse 4x10 and Powerhouse 2x15 with my 400+. One could Rock the planet with that setup.

If I were you I'd look into a 4 ohm Genz Benz Ubber Cab for that head. I bet it will pummel.

Think like two of the Ubber 15 Cabs or the Ubber 2x12 Cab.

Bassist13 · #20 02-06-2011, 05:17 PM

If the idea that tube heads are better matched with certain ones is true, with the traynor head there is a resonance control, I think thats what its called on the amp that allows you to tame the low end. I use that head with an ashdown abm 4x10 which is rear ported and I tend to run it at about half to keep it from over pushing the speakers. It doesnt change a whole lot of the sound in relative to how less the speakers move though. just sorta tightens it all up.