Bass amps not meant to mix and match?

iri5h_punk21 · #1 06-14-2010, 11:24 PM

I was talking to one of the guys at my local music store (pretty well known and reputable spot in San Jose), and we were talking about different head options and he mentioned that it is typically as easy to mix and match different makes of heads and cabs together. He was saying something along the lines of some cabs suck more power and don't allow the amp to get to its full volume potential...or something along those lines.

I'm new to bass amps and am just trying to figure it all out without making a bad buy.

JimmyM · #2 06-14-2010, 11:51 PM

my thoughts on this issue is mixing different brand heads with cabs is fine, but not mixing cabs. meaning, if you use more than one cab, it's generally best to use the exact same cabs. it eliminates possible phasing issues and power imbalances.

Mr. Foxen · #3 06-15-2010, 03:55 AM

Some cabs are more or less sensitive than others, meaning some need more power to reach the same volume. But no amp has a volume level, just a power output, cabs have a volume level, that needs the power to be realised. Typically the small cabs but need more power than big ones, due to sacrificing sensitivity for size (search Hoffman's Iron Law).

blockinlay · #4 06-15-2010, 04:41 AM

Couple things. Never use a head without a speaker attached. Never use guitar cable as speaker cable. Don't mix cabinets of different impedences. When using two similar cabs together, the impedence is halved, so the setting on your amp must be adjusted correctly. Mixing different heads with different cabs is a matter of taste, and it will help you find the sound you want. Most will sound good and perform just fine at lower volumes or practicing. It's when you get with others and have to turn up to match a loud drummer and wanking guitar solos that you will know whether you made a good choice. Find what you think you like, what you plan to do with it, then search out reviews before buying. What is your plan and budget?

Mr. Foxen · #5 06-15-2010, 04:44 AM

It's fine to run most solid state heads without speakers attached, handy for quiet practice or using to DI.

Using two cabs together can add the impedance if they are in series.

Only amps with an output transformer (mostly valve amps) need correct impedance selection, aside from adhering to the minimum provided with SS amps.

Not everyone plays rock/metal.

Bob C · #6 06-15-2010, 09:02 AM

I think manufacturers attempt to design cabinets to complement their heads (or vice versa). Naturally, they want you to spend all of your money at their company.

An inefficient cab may match well with a super high powered head. A trebly head might work well with a "bassier" speaker system.

But there are so many options, even within one brand. Even within the same speaker configuration! You've got pro series and club series. You have vintage lines, hi-fi lines, neo this and that.

Manufacturers are telling us that they know what speakers best go with their heads. And they're also giving us lots of choices, so we don't stray to another company.

So yeah, I do think Ampeg for example, will "voice" their cabs to go with their heads. They may also recommend you use this model with that one. Part of this does have to do with power ratings and sensitivity, as was stated in other posts. But it's up to us to try out everything and buy what we like best.

countrybass007 · #7 06-15-2010, 11:15 AM

I've mixed and matched brands for years. The main thing is to try a combination before you but, if at all possible. I currently often use an Orange SP212 as an extension speaker off my Phil Jones Suitcase, and it sounds great. I'm sure not what the manufacturer had in mind, but it makes a great sounding combination. My Orange Tiny Terror sounds great hooked up to my Boogie 118 and an Orange OBC115. My Boogie D180 sounds great with the OBC115. Mixing and matching works for me.

Bass_Pounder · #8 06-15-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iri5h_punk21

He was saying something along the lines of some cabs suck more power and don't allow the amp to get to its full volume potential...or something along those lines.

Cabs do not suck or draw power from an amp.

Cabs react to the power presented to them.

I believe he is referring to how efficient the cab is. Some get louder than others with the same power applied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blockinlay

Couple things. Never use a head without a speaker attached. Never use guitar cable as speaker cable. Don't mix cabinets of different impedences. When using two similar cabs together, the impedence is halved, so the setting on your amp must be adjusted correctly.

Usually only tube heads require a load be connected. Most solid states amps funtion perfectly normal without a speaker cab connected.

You can mix cabs with different ohm ratings. In fact, it is the proper thing to do when dealing with a 4X10 (4 ohms) and a 2X10 (8 ohms) to ensure that each speaker recieves the same amount of power.

Impedance is halved when dealing with cabinets of the same ohm rating connected in parallel. Cabs connected in series adds the total impedance.

countrybass007 · #9 06-15-2010, 11:17 AM

Bad proofreading, before you BUY. Try before you buy is always the best way, but often things sound different in the store than in real life.

Spinal Tapper · #10 06-15-2010, 11:52 AM

I mix n match, always have actually...in fact, the only time my rig was the most unreliable was when I was using an older GK 400RB and GK 4x10. The 400RB would constantly clip out, and I was blowing speakers left and right. GK said they had a "bad batch" of speakers...

My current rig sounds awesome, and it's all over the map:

Markbass R500
SWR 2x10 (8 ohm)
Orange OBC 115 (8 ohm)

lowendblues · #11 06-15-2010, 01:55 PM

I run a Sansamp VT > Markbass LMII > GK MB112-II. (8 ohm load).

It sounds pretty good, however I'd like to get another GK cab to bring it down to 4 ohms and advantage of the full power of the Markbass.

Fuzzbass · #12 06-15-2010, 03:17 PM

I've run all kinds of mutt rigs over the years. IME there is no reason not to do so (assuming the pieces are appropriate for each other: wattage, impedance, etc). With a little bit of luck you can assemble a killer rig.

That applies even to speaker cabs. I once ran an Ampeg 2x10 with a Mesa/Boogie EV-loaded 2x10. The Mesa was a lot more efficient, but when I set the levels even with a stereo power amp the combo sounded fantastic: the Mesa had great highs and lows, while the Ampeg had a nice warm punch (I turned the inferior tweeter off). Together, they sounded MUCH better than either cab alone... and I'm definitely talkin' tone, not volume.

iri5h_punk21 · #13 06-15-2010, 09:50 PM

I've posted a couple forums asking for help but basically here's the situation:

I have an older (90's i think) EA iAmp 600 (600w @ 4 ohms) running into a MESA powerhouse 1200 (1000w @ 4 ohms) and have just been having all sorts of issues with it being on, but not producing any sound randomly, and just overall being too quiet.

I recently went into my local music store asking for advice and brought in my head. We plugged my present head into an Accugroove El Whappo and played it at the highest input without the input led going into the red, and the output at 10. T'was fairly loud.

Then we plugged a MESA M-Pulse 600 into the same cab, and it was louder than my present amp with the gain only at 3 and the master around the same. I was surprised at the volume difference considering they are both 600w amps at 4 ohms.

And I'm just trying to figure out why. lol

Brad Johnson · #14 06-16-2010, 12:24 AM

Some companies build amps that I like more than their cabs and vice versa. I haven't had a matched rig since I owned an original Trace Elliot AH500 +410+115 stack which I grew to hate. Went back to mixing and matching and have been estatic ever since. I mix brands and cabs with excellent results.

Brad Johnson · #15 06-16-2010, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iri5h_punk21

I've posted a couple forums asking for help but basically here's the situation:

I have an older (90's i think) EA iAmp 600 (600w @ 4 ohms) running into a MESA powerhouse 1200 (1000w @ 4 ohms) and have just been having all sorts of issues with it being on, but not producing any sound randomly, and just overall being too quiet.

I recently went into my local music store asking for advice and brought in my head. We plugged my present head into an Accugroove El Whappo and played it at the highest input without the input led going into the red, and the output at 10. T'was fairly loud.

Then we plugged a MESA M-Pulse 600 into the same cab, and it was louder than my present amp with the gain only at 3 and the master around the same. I was surprised at the volume difference considering they are both 600w amps at 4 ohms.

And I'm just trying to figure out why. lol

There's a very simple explanation... first there is no universal standard for the numbers on your gains. Meaning a 3 on both amps will not necessarily equal the same output. Adjust the gains for the amp you're using, not the numbers on the amp.

Get in the habit of treating different amps as different from what you're used too. Many times people are unhappy because the tweaks they made on one piece don't work the same on another. They're not supposed to.

All wattage ratings are not equal. Where along the freuqncy spectrum your amp is producing whatever power it does matters. The wattage spec is largely just a ballpark number on consumer gear. I have a 500w amp (which doesn't quite produce 500w) that was much louder than some 700w amps (which clearly didn't produce that either) I've tried.

The taper on those gains can vary too. It'll probably be handy to learn what that means.

There are many factors involved that determine how well an amp might work for you. Wattage is just one.

seanm · #16 06-16-2010, 12:38 AM

Mixing and matching can work. I used to use an EA CXL-112 which I found a bit too hi-fi. So I matched it with an LDS cab to give it more of an old school tone. Worked great!

seanm · #17 06-16-2010, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

There's a very simple explanation... first there is no universal standard for the numbers on your gains. Meaning a 3 on both amps will not necessarily equal the same output. Adjust the gains for the amp you're using, not the numbers on the amp.

+1 I once bought a boom box and was impressed by how much volume it produced. I never went past 5! Then we had a party and I cranked it. Turned out that once you got to 5, there was nothing left