Bass cab vs. studio speaker disparity

cassius987 · #1 07-25-2010, 06:00 PM

I have noticed for a few years now that I prefer by a wide margin the way my bass sounds through studio monitors or sometimes a comparable mixing board and PA versus bass cabs. The tone is always a lot more "mature", as in it's easier to get a whole picture of the note with the studio monitors. With cabs I feel like I have to stand way back and in the perfect spot to get that sound. It's always irritated me; I've felt this way using every kind of bass I've ever played. My signal chain in the studio and at a gig are pretty much identical, same preamp and even amp sometimes.

What's going on here? Am I just being picky, am I missing the point? Why don't bass cabs sound as good as studio monitors? Even when it comes to live feedback--I'm not just talking about playback, I'm talking about real-time monitoring. Is it a speaker size issue, a power issue, an impedance issue, an "I'm crazy" issue?

I don't think I've ever heard this addressed, but after getting recent session work back and loving the tone, I thought once again, "Now why can't it sound EXACTLY like that at a gig with a decent rig?"

BurningSkies · #2 07-25-2010, 06:03 PM

You need better speaker cabs.

M0ses · #3 07-25-2010, 06:03 PM

Go build yourself a fEarful, I think. Studio monitors are intended to be hi-fi. Most bass cabs are extremely low-fi. Not fEarful.

cassius987 · #4 07-25-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

You need better speaker cabs.

Really? I know my stuff isn't primo but it isn't crap; Markbass 1x15, Ashdown 4x10, Ampeg 4x10 have all rotated through.

BurningSkies · #5 07-25-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassius987

Really? I know my stuff isn't primo but it isn't crap; Markbass 1x15, Ashdown 4x10, Ampeg 4x10 have all rotated through.

Yes, but you're using what is traditional speaker cabs, what you're looking to hear is full range bass reproduction that's also low on any kind of coloration.

If you look at M0ses' suggestion then you check my gear profile, you'll see where this is heading.

thudfromafar · #6 07-25-2010, 06:15 PM

I'll help ya out a little with that

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p...Earful_designs

David1234 · #7 07-25-2010, 06:18 PM

Check out Dr bass's 3-way designs (despite massive delivery troubles, the gear is good), the SWR Triad, the aguilar JC285 (a 2-way based on the old SWR Baby Blue), any fEarful builds or ACME gear and especially accugroove's designs, and you'll probably discover that you like mid range drivers and don't like quad boxes any more.

And then 3 years will pass and you'll your quad back, but only for certain shows.

Timi · #8 07-25-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

You need better speaker cabs.

"Better".....

The studio monitors and PA systems are (hopefully) fairly transparent full range systems. The Ampeg cab is highly charactered, that doesn't make it "worse" than a transparent cab, only different.

I won't try and recommend a transparent cab since I know nothing about them, I'd rather the Ampeg

Jeff Scott · #9 07-25-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David1234

Check out Dr bass's 3-way designs (despite massive delivery troubles, the gear is good)

Only if you buy used!

JimmyM · #10 07-25-2010, 06:42 PM

ya, i'd scratch dr bass off the list if you're buying new. but that's the bottom line...studio tone requires studio-like cabs. or a pa style rig. those 2 and 3 way cabs when done right like the fearful and bill fitzmaurice cabs can sound huge and just like studio monitors. me, i like both.

Nightlyraider · #11 07-25-2010, 06:48 PM

Absolutely no way any studio monitors can reproduce as full a bass-line as good bass cabs (on the market); but they definitely produce a slightly different and "recognizable" sound we hear popular music (to me).

I personally blame this on the fact that the majority of music I listen to isn't through equipment suitable to recreate "bass you can feel". Any experts on this?

Alot of times in the basement pretend studio I've noticed that I can compare my lines to some other recording soundwise; but only through the small studio monitor context. Basically, my live sound feels quite different then the DI'd and studio monitored recordings. The live sound is my own; while the replayed stuff sounds more like "the bass".

BurningSkies · #12 07-25-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timi

"Better".....

The studio monitors and PA systems are (hopefully) fairly transparent full range systems. The Ampeg cab is highly charactered, that doesn't make it "worse" than a transparent cab, only different.

I won't try and recommend a transparent cab since I know nothing about them, I'd rather the Ampeg

He didn't ask for 'traditional'...he asked for something that was closer to high fidelity.

The first bass rig I played, back when I was in high school, was an SVT 810..for what it does it's a nice set up.

Imagine a cab setup that's as loud or louder than an 810, but clean, clear and with extended lows and highs and no missing mid content...

nicoli · #13 07-25-2010, 07:06 PM

If you like the sound of bass -> mixing board -> studio monitors, why don't you mimic it with your live setup?

Have you tried just running bass -> transparent DI -> board -> full range / 2-way PA loudspeaker?

JimmyM · #14 07-25-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightlyraider

Absolutely no way any studio monitors can reproduce as full a bass-line as good bass cabs (on the market); but they definitely produce a slightly different and "recognizable" sound we hear popular music (to me).

I personally blame this on the fact that the majority of music I listen to isn't through equipment suitable to recreate "bass you can feel". Any experts on this?

Alot of times in the basement pretend studio I've noticed that I can compare my lines to some other recording soundwise; but only through the small studio monitor context. Basically, my live sound feels quite different then the DI'd and studio monitored recordings. The live sound is my own; while the replayed stuff sounds more like "the bass".

that all depends on whether you're using studio monitors like this:

or those big wall mounted studio monitors you find in the big studios that i tried to find a good pic of but couldn't.

JimmyM · #15 07-25-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicoli

If you like the sound of bass -> mixing board -> studio monitors, why don't you mimic it with your live setup?

Have you tried just running bass -> transparent DI -> board -> full range / 2-way PA loudspeaker?

careful with 2 way pa speakers. many of them are built to use with a sub and don't have any low end below 100 hz.

Timi · #16 07-25-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

He didn't ask for 'traditional'...he asked for something that was closer to high fidelity.

The first bass rig I played, back when I was in high school, was an SVT 810..for what it does it's a nice set up.

Imagine a cab setup that's as loud or louder than an 810, but clean, clear and with extended lows and highs and no missing mid content...

Aware of that, which is why I pointed out that he should change his Ampeg for something more transparent....

Nightlyraider · #17 07-25-2010, 07:18 PM

I wish I had something that nice. For a reference point I am listening through the Klipsch 2.1 computer monitors or 4 inch/dome tweeter Infinity monitors.

The other listening rig is a Carver 600 powering 2 Klipsch 12inch 3ways and 2 Yamaha 15inch 2ways.

The second is preferable...

naturalkinds · #18 07-25-2010, 07:36 PM

This is a great question by the OP. Look forward to more responses on this.

Mr. Foxen · #19 07-25-2010, 07:43 PM

You definitely want some cabs engineered to be flat response, Fearfuls, or Barefaced. Stuff with more in common with PA than trad stick speakers in a box bass cabs. Flat response is what to look for.

deb · #20 07-25-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassius987

I have noticed for a few years now that I prefer by a wide margin the way my bass sounds through studio monitors ..."

This is also my preference and precisely why I asked Don at Low Down Sounds to build a custom cab for me.

I'll point you to a couple of posts by fellow Talkbasser KJung:
Post #653 in this thread:
Low Down Sound Club: V2

Post #632 in this thread:
Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

KJung has sound clips posted so you can get a general idea about how these cabs sound.

deb