Bass directly into Carvin DCM??

[NickCormier]

I am looking to get a rack that plays both guitar and bass.. with FRFR speakers.

So, I am looking at getting a Carvin DCM for my poweramp, which will help for the high frequencies, but should also be enough low frequencies for bass.

It will be a long time before I can afford a real bass preamp though, since im dead broke right now.. So I was wondering..... Has anyone played their bass directly into the Carvin DCM?? (i have the Carvin active pickups in my bass, so a little EQing) Should that work alright?

I will be picking up a H&K BATT someday for my bass preamp I think, but that may be afew months away, esp with how rare they are.

I was also looking into the Carvin B2000, but my concern with that is that its power amp section will not have the full range that the DCM series would have in frequencies.. basically, it wont sound great with guitar going thru it. I wish I could get some clarification on that, I called carvin but the guy I got to talk to didnt know much about anything, and when I asked if the BX/B series had the same frequency range poweramp section than the DCM series, he gave me a "oh.. yeh.. sure.." kinda answer (indicating he really didnt know at all) =/

[()smoke()]

what preamp are you planning to use with your guitar?

you might be able to get sound from the power amp and bass alone, depending on the amp's input sensitivity, but your signal-noise ratio won't be ideal and you won't get full volume

maybe consider an inexpensive preamp used? i have an old Peavey TG Raxx, which is a tube guitar preamp, and coincidentally, the TB Raxx bass version is the exact same preamp with different labels on the eq--it sounds good for bass

[NickCormier]

a Digitech GSP1101 (modeller).. it doesnt really have great bass models, so Im not sure how much it can do for bass.

Im still really wanting the B2000 or BX1500 to work, but if they dont have enough high frequencies to deal with guitar, thats not ideal.. I would like to get an Axe-FX in the future, which takes control of the full range of frequencies, so if the bass head would squash half or more of those frequencies, thats not very productive.

[cheapbasslovin]

I had a Carvin R600 head a few years back and had a guitar player run through that a few times and it sounded fine. Better than his own rig for a few tones, actually.

With regard to frequencies, I'm pretty sure your output frequencies are far more limited by your cab than the electronics in your amp. Most guitar cabs have a set of midrange speakers. Most bass cabs have some sort of woofer/ tweeter type combo that has a far greater frequency spectrum than a guitar cab has. I don't see any problem running a guitar through a bass amp, except that the EQ points will be optimized for bass.

If you still want to go for a pre-power combo, you could pick up a booster pedal for cheap in the short term to bring your signal close to line level until you can get a more ideal preamp.

[BassmanPaul]

The input sensitivity of a typical power amp is much more than can be provided by even an active bass. I used a cheap ART TubeMP for a while and that worked fine. They can be had for $30 - $40.

Paul

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

The input sensitivity of a typical power amp is much more than can be provided by even an active bass.

Correct. In 99% of cases running a bass, even an active one, directly into a typical power amp will get you very poor results (quiet, with weak tone). You need some sort of additional gain stage, and ideally it will also convert your signal from unbalanced to balanced.

[rpsands]

I've tried it just for fiddling and it did not work well. I'd suggest a simple mic preamp like a presonus tubepre or something along those lines. Or a pedal preamp, like the Dave Hall stuff, maybe.

[rpsands]

Also, if you're running normal guitar, just run into the FX return of the B2000 - it would be fine.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

I am looking to get a rack that plays both guitar and bass.. with FRFR speakers.

So, I am looking at getting a Carvin DCM for my poweramp, which will help for the high frequencies, but should also be enough low frequencies for bass.

It will be a long time before I can afford a real bass preamp though, since im dead broke right now.. So I was wondering..... Has anyone played their bass directly into the Carvin DCM?? (i have the Carvin active pickups in my bass, so a little EQing) Should that work alright?

I will be picking up a H&K BATT someday for my bass preamp I think, but that may be afew months away, esp with how rare they are.

I was also looking into the Carvin B2000, but my concern with that is that its power amp section will not have the full range that the DCM series would have in frequencies.. basically, it wont sound great with guitar going thru it. I wish I could get some clarification on that, I called carvin but the guy I got to talk to didnt know much about anything, and when I asked if the BX/B series had the same frequency range poweramp section than the DCM series, he gave me a "oh.. yeh.. sure.." kinda answer (indicating he really didnt know at all) =/

The B2000 will be capable of reproducing all the highs you could ever want for guitar, especially when you consider that it's a rare guitar speaker that's capable of doing much above 7.5 or 8 kHz anyway. With a decent guitar pre and guitar-oriented speakers, you should be able to get a reasonable sound for guitar.

[buffordbass]

I can run from my MXR-M80 directly into the power amp and sound good... but you do need something!!

[NickCormier]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

The B2000 will be capable of reproducing all the highs you could ever want for guitar, especially when you consider that it's a rare guitar speaker that's capable of doing much above 7.5 or 8 kHz anyway. With a decent guitar pre and guitar-oriented speakers, you should be able to get a reasonable sound for guitar.

Im most likely going to get a full range speaker, like a Beyma
http://www.usspeaker.com/Beyma%2012GA50-1.htm

So would that work with the B2000 or a BX1500?? (with extra EQing, could help more)

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

Im most likely going to get a full range speaker, like a Beyma
http://www.usspeaker.com/Beyma%2012GA50-1.htm

So would that work with the B2000 or a BX1500?? (with extra EQing, could help more)

Don't see why not. Especially if, as rpsands suggested, you're running your guitar pre through the FX return.

What kind of guitar do you play? Everything depends on personal taste of course. But if you play electric and use distorted sounds, you actually may NOT particularly want or benefit from a full-frequency speaker. None of the classic electric rigs--Fender, Marshall, Mesa, Vox, whatever--use those kinds of speakers; they all typically use instrument speakers that, as I said, top out well below 10 kHz.

Though now that I think of it, your pre may have some kind of cab-simulating circuitry that would help a full-range system pretend that it's not one. (Which would sort of ruin the point of buying the full-range speakers for guitar IMO, but it's your dime.)

If you play acoustic guitar, full-range speakers are a fine idea. A good acoustic guitar amplification system, in a way, generally has more in common with a keyboard amp or a modern hi-fidelity (in the correct sense of the word) bass rig than with a typical electric guitar amp.

[NickCormier]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Don't see why not. Especially if, as rpsands suggested, you're running your guitar pre through the FX return.

What kind of guitar do you play? Everything depends on personal taste of course. But if you play electric and use distorted sounds, you actually may NOT particularly want or benefit from a full-frequency speaker. None of the classic electric rigs--Fender, Marshall, Mesa, Vox, whatever--use those kinds of speakers; they all typically use instrument speakers that, as I said, top out well below 10 kHz.

Though now that I think of it, your pre may have some kind of cab-simulating circuitry that would help a full-range system pretend that it's not one. (Which would sort of ruin the point of buying the full-range speakers for guitar IMO, but it's your dime.)

If you play acoustic guitar, full-range speakers are a fine idea. A good acoustic guitar amplification system, in a way, generally has more in common with a keyboard amp or a modern hi-fidelity (in the correct sense of the word) bass rig than with a typical electric guitar amp.

My current preamp has cab modelling, and if I do get the Axe-FX in the future, that is made for FRFR setups.

The reason I want a full range speaker mainly though, is because I want to play bass AND guitar thru the same setup (my cab is a bass cab, ported) and im not too concerned about achieving any "classic" guitar tone, as I am not in a cover band. Normal guitar speakers wont have enough to deal with bass low end, and Im finding my bass speakers are squashing the high frequencies for guitar right now. So a full range speaker would solve that concern most likely.

And Rlindsey, you should know me from the Carvin forums, so I only play Carvin guitars + basses, and my choices for poweramp is either a BX1500/B2000 or DCM1540L. Im just wondering if the Bass heads have less frequency response in its circuitry than the DCM series, which are made to be PA poweramps, obviously.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by NickCormier

My current preamp has cab modelling, and if I do get the Axe-FX in the future, that is made for FRFR setups.

The reason I want a full range speaker mainly though, is because I want to play bass AND guitar thru the same setup (my cab is a bass cab, ported) and im not too concerned about achieving any "classic" guitar tone, as I am not in a cover band. Normal guitar speakers wont have enough to deal with bass low end, and Im finding my bass speakers are squashing the high frequencies for guitar right now. So a full range speaker would solve that concern most likely.

And Rlindsey, you should know me from the Carvin forums, so I only play Carvin guitars + basses, and my choices for poweramp is either a BX1500/B2000 or DCM1540L. Im just wondering if the Bass heads have less frequency response in its circuitry than the DCM series, which are made to be PA poweramps, obviously.

Well, I don't know how good that Beyma is going to be for bass, with it's 70 Hz low end (and the specs don't tell you if thats a +/- 3 dB spec or a -10 dB spec, AKA "usable" low end). But in a rig that does double duty, there are going to be trade-offs.


Yes, indeed, Nick, I remember you're a Carvin guy. I'm just saying, there's no reason to think that the amplifier section of a modern high-fidelity SS bass amp would have been designed in such a way as to cripple the frequency response sufficiently to make an electric guitar sound treble-deprived. Any tone shaping would have been done in the preamp (and the B series does relatively little of that anyway) and could be avoided by bypassing the preamp as previously explained.

[gregoire1]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

The input sensitivity of a typical power amp is much more than can be provided by even an active bass. I used a cheap ART TubeMP for a while and that worked fine. They can be had for $30 - $40.

Paul

These cheap (price-wise) preamps make everything sound good, bass, guitar, even mics, and step the signal up where your power amp can really run with it.

[aborgman]

I run a Zoom B2 into a Carvin DCM1000 and it drives it just fine.

A couple folks have used active basses on it (a Schecter and a Stu Hamm Urge I) without the Zoom - and were able to drive it ok with just the active pickup output.

...but like someone else said - if you ain't got enough, pick up one of the cheap mic Pre's out there.

[lowendblues]

Something like this work?

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ebtech-L...63-i1371897.gc

[bongomania]

By their claims it would be perfect for the job, but I have to wonder how it can boost by 14 dB without power. Like, are low frequencies cut in order to use their energy, or what?

[BassmanPaul]

I saw the price and said no thank you. Why pay nearly a ton for something that can be done for a third the price?

Paul

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by bongomania

By their claims it would be perfect for the job, but I have to wonder how it can boost by 14 dB without power.

Easy. A transformer.