Bass Tone for my High School Jazz Band

[92FIGMO10]

Hey there, I'm sure there are a ton of threads about this but I must be incapable of choosing the right words to search by in order to find it. Hope this is the right section to post this in.

I'm playing bass in my high school's jazz band and after listening to a recording of our last concert have been a little dissatified with the way my bass is being heard. We play everything from big band swing to bebop, reggae, funk, latin, and fusion. The band consists of bass, guitar, piano, drums, two alto sax, two tenor sax, one baritone sax, three trombones, one bass trombone, and seven trumpets.
For the most part, I'm ok with where my bass sits in the mix. The area that bugs me is that when I and the bass drum hit a note together, it sounds rather mushy. It makes me sound a little to boomy. I think I should turn down the bass frequencies and focus more on the mids but I'm just not exactly sure which one's would be the best for me.
I'm playing a ESP bass with GHS Brite Flats (groundwounds) through a Fender Bassman 250 watt 1x15" combo. It has a two-band semi-pariametic (spelling?) eq for the mids and then bass and treble knobs. I've got bass at about 10 o'clock, low mids at 12 o'clock and 150hz, high mids at 11 o'clock and 900hz, and treble around 7 or 8 o'clock. The high end is well controlled and sits in the mix rather nicely, it's mostly the bottom end that seems to be in the bass drum's sonic space.

Any advice on what might get me a nice distinct sound would be great. I just wanna be heard clearly within the band without running over anyone else's space.

[ba55i5t]

Hey,

I think your low end is a little too clogged up...you should push your low mids up to around the 275-350 range to avoid the mush then boost them to about 1 or 2 o clock. I like having my high mids around the 2 - 2.5 kHz area, boost that to 12 or 1 o clock. Give that a shot, it should clear your bass up pretty well.

Also, if your bass has an onboard EQ, turn down the lows a little, boost the mids a little and add treble to taste.

Good luck

[92FIGMO10]

Alright, thanks. I'll give that a go. Sure wish I could get a recording with myself and the whole band everytime I wanted to experiment with my tone.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by ba55i5t

Hey,

I think your low end is a little too clogged up...you should push your low mids up to around the 275-350 range to avoid the mush then boost them to about 1 or 2 o clock. I like having my high mids around the 2 - 2.5 kHz area, boost that to 12 or 1 o clock. Give that a shot, it should clear your bass up pretty well.

Also, if your bass has an onboard EQ, turn down the lows a little, boost the mids a little and add treble to taste.

Good luck

I concur. You might want to push your low mids up to 500 to avoid honk. Depending on where your bass control is centered, you could try and turn it down a little. If it's down there at about 60, you're starting to share your sonic territory with the bass drum.

[Schec]

Switching to round wounds will give you a brighter sound, which might cut through the mix a bit better

[92FIGMO10]

Thanks people, I'll try those ideas. I do have a set of rounds lying around just in case, but I've definitely found flats and groundwounds to be my preference. Anymore suggestions would be great, I'd like to have a lot ideas to try when I play with my band next.

[RNV]

How is the bass drum muffled? I played drums in my HS Jazz band and we had a similar problem. Our bass player was amazing, but never was happy with his sound and always took blame for the mush. I took some time, bought a new head with my own money and retuned the kick. Problem solved. Kick drums can cause this as well. Especially the 20 inchers.

[92FIGMO10]

The bass drum doesn't ring excessively, but it's definitely got some sustain to it. I might get a little bit of foam for the resonant side and try that, thanks.

Seems like everyone's pointing in a similar direction, anyone feel differently? I've eq'd as ba55i5t and Munjibunga suggested and am liking the results thus far.

[M0ses]

Originally Posted by Schec

Switching to round wounds will give you a brighter sound, which might cut through the mix a bit better

I have never heard anyone say that rounds cut through better before. Ever. I think that would be a step in the wrong direction. I concur with everything else. Move your mids up, 150Hz is more bass than mid.

[thudfromafar]

Move your mids up, but you dont necessarily have to cut the bass. As I've read, "boominess" is more a result of 125-250hz than 60hz.

[Zombbg4]

Is your amp sitting on the stage? We used to put ours on a spare chair and it helped with the muddy low end problems. Also, what pickups are you using? I'm not familiar with that bass and am assuming it has two...either way, I'd stay away from the neck pup if that's possible.

[92FIGMO10]

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

Move your mids up, but you dont necessarily have to cut the bass. As I've read, "boominess" is more a result of 125-250hz than 60hz.

Hmmm, that's interesting. I'll look into that as I wouldn't mind putting a little more of that room-filling bass back into the sound. My sound is crystal clear right now without any twang (unless I want it, which is cool with me) and the low end is pretty tight. Just don't wanna be ditching the low end of the band, you know?

Originally Posted by Zombbg4

Is your amp sitting on the stage? We used to put ours on a spare chair and it helped with the muddy low end problems. Also, what pickups are you using? I'm not familiar with that bass and am assuming it has two...either way, I'd stay away from the neck pup if that's possible.

My amp is in fact sitting on the stage. The amp has got wheels so it's sitting a few inches off the ground, but I might try that chair idea. I can't imagine that having any negative effects at the very least. The bass is an ESP LTD F-104. It has two stock ESP pickups with active electronics and a two-band eq. I normally leave the pickup blender in the middle, but if I do play with it, it's almost always in the bridge's direction.

[IvanMike]

where was the recording made? hopefully where you will usually be playing. Make another recording in the same place, just bass, then bass and drums, then just drums. Make sure no other instruments are being misheard.

The kick could need a new head, the heads adjusted properly, of muffling added or removed. or none of that. Too bad you don't like the sound of the bass and the kick playing at the same time! the point is kinda to do that a lot.

Go check out the EQ FAQ in the AMPS FAQ sticky linked in my sig. lots of good ideas there. FWIW, often the attack of the BG live is more the kick drum half the time. If you can figure out where the mud is, you should have a great sound. See if you can get someone else to play the bass while you mess with the EQ. have a pad and pen handy to jot down what works, what doesnt and how they sound to you. also make sure the drummer is playing at this time.

Of course, if the recording is from a practice room rather than the performance area then you will have to tweak your sound again for that room, but it will be great practice for being able to do this at a gig. These days I've done my rig and sound for so long that i kinda EQ by feel and can usually guess where the problem frequencies are just by listening. And as always, EQ is always a last resort. try the least amount needed to get the sound right.

[grovest]

Former HS jazz band bassist, and current 'town big band' bassist, chiming in. For one, the acoustics of your venue could be garbage. The recording method and device could be suspect. The bass drum might be flabby. You can't control any of those! My advice, turn your bass EQ down, way down. In fact I cut most of mine, which according to the manual corresponds to 20 Hz.

If you can, a bigger (much bigger) amp that you don't have to crank up the volume on is always preferable. But since most high school bands have to be content with their TKOs and Minibrutes, you'll have to slot yourself in above the bass drum and trade rump-shaking for tonal information.

[92FIGMO10]

The recording was made in our school auditorium. I've never heard any complaints about the acousitics and I've never been bothered by them.
Our recording was done with two Shure SM-80's I believe, one stage left, one stage right. It is very possible that the recording could be to blame. I unfortunately don't have any info on exactly what was done to the recording in the mixing and mastering stage. He might of eq'd it in all kinds of funny ways. All I know was that it was pretty well compressed.
I never had any complaints about my sound until the recording, so maybe I should just relax.
Still, thanks everybody, I'm liking the new tone I'm getting at the moment.