Bass vs mic preamps: what will I lose?

[Balog]

I'm tired of the tiny craptastic combo I've been using, and looking to slowly build up a pre+power+cab rig. I'm on a rather low budget, and will be saving up and getting it a piece at a time as things come up used. I figure most solid state power amps will be roughly similar, and I can snag an old lead sled from Craig's List for relatively cheap. I'd like to get a preamp then go cab shopping (probably also via Craig's List).

Now, I'm wondering what the functional difference between say a Presonus Tubepre or Art Studio MP and an Aguilar Tone Hammer or some version of Sansamp. Obviously the price difference is significant, but what exactly would I lose not having a bass specific pre?

[JimmyM]

mostly the bells and whistles that make playing through a bass pre easier.

[staindbass]

i dont think you would lose anything... all those units have about the same fidelity or clarity to them. very good for the price. all good choices. personally i would choose the one with the most tone control flexability. johnny a/ staind

[JimmyM]

hey johnny, you still using the avalon 737?

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Generally speaking, an instrument (or mic) specific pre-amps are usually more or less tailored to that instruments supposed needs, which makes it easier to dial and re-dial specific tone. Also the FX sections (if any) are more or less tailored to the frequency bands most associated to that use.

Most people who seek a clean, clear bass tone are utterly surprised how even a simple mixing board "channel strip" gives them better tone than their bass amps tone controls.

Originally Posted by Balog

I figure most solid state power amps will be roughly similar, and I can snag an old lead sled from Craig's List for relatively cheap.

That's unfortunately not true. While a lower quality amps may seem like a good deal, corner cutting on the power supplies and on the amount of discretes, make the amp go to it's knees (in a bad way ) when low frequency power is demanded.

Regards
Sam

[Balog]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

That's unfortunately not true. While a lower quality amps may seem like a good deal, corner cutting on the power supplies and on the amount of discretes, make the amp go to it's knees (in a bad way ) when low frequency power is demanded.

Regards
Sam

Interesting. So are PA power amps not well regarded for use in bass rigs? I'm assuming older bass specific power amps are still ok?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Balog

Interesting. So are PA power amps not well regarded for use in bass rigs? I'm assuming older bass specific power amps are still ok?

there really aren't many bass specific power amps. they're more of a general purpose item. but as cheap as power amps are these days, i'd go for a newer one. they're lighter and made better imho. some of those older power amps are really great, but most of them are very heavy.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

there really aren't many bass specific power amps. they're more of a general purpose item. but as cheap as power amps are these days, i'd go for a newer one. they're lighter and made better imho. some of those older power amps are really great, but most of them are very heavy.

I've got a 1,200-watt Fender MB-1200 mono-block bass power amp in the ads right now. Cheep. Make me an offer. They're $1K at GC. It dominates ... goes down to 2 ohms. Looks like this.

Fender MB-1200 for sale.

[JimmyM]

well looky there! a bass specific power amp!

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

hey johnny, you still using the avalon 737?

yep. that's what i've been using exclusively for the last 4 months and i love it. it has alot of features but it's super simple to operate because it's laid out so intuitively.

things i love about it: very nice, flexible eq, nice compression for bass, transparent, fat & punchy all at the same time, super low noise, and it tracks every note on every bass that i have perfectly. i can even get it to grind/distort beautifully (non artificial sounding) if i push the output level into the crown xti2000.

IMO, it blows away every 'bass specific' preamp that i've ever owned or played thru (and i've owned ALOT of 'em).

[JimmyM]

have you used the avalon or those other pres as actual mic pres or with other instruments?

[Son of Bovril]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I've got a 1,200-watt Fender MB-1200 mono-block bass power amp in the ads right now. Cheep. Make me an offer. They're $1K at GC. It dominates ... goes down to 2 ohms. Looks like this.

Fender MB-1200 for sale.

hehe I have the same amp but it is currently on storage duty while I test the Crown XLS1500 as it's possible replacement... my back being the biggest deciding factor

That Fender is a great amp though, could easily drive two 810s with it!

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

That Fender is a great amp though, could easily drive two 810s with it!

You could easily drive two 810s with a 1-watt amplifier too. And nothing bad will happen ; }

[Son of Bovril]

Originally Posted by greenboy

You could easily drive two 810s with a 1-watt amplifier too. And nothing bad will happen ; }

tis true indeed, but not much awesome will happen either

[greenboy]

Especially if there is no blue LED meter bar ; }

[Son of Bovril]

Now if only they would redo Kit from Knight Rider with blue LEDs!

[greenboy]

To kinda get back on subject, what I want in a preamp is some clean voicing, and some dirtier voicing (though yes that could be done by a separate pedal), and a flexible EQ section that doesn't try to stick me with someone's hidden default voicing of how they think things should be.

It's hard to find a channel strip that would give you overdrive, but it's probably easy to find one that'll give you some quality EQ that's more flexible than what a lot of bass heads and preamps have, and you might get a couple other items like decent compression in the bargain.

Really, DSPs and algorithms are so good nowdays that a preamp could really have a quality sound and immensely flexible EQ. Bass players have somewhat warmed up to the TC Electronics thingie in spite of its curtailed power. Maybe even because of it, because it's not quite as scary to a group with luddite tendencies. I hope soon that'll get taken to the next level but with simple intelligent control, just spread out over a decent amoun of panel like say a channel strip usually has ; }

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

have you used the avalon or those other pres as actual mic pres or with other instruments?

I'll jump in on this one, even though it wasn't directed at me.

I've recently used a 737 with bass, vocals and acoustic guitar. It takes a good bit of knob turning when jumping from one instrument/vocal to the other, but the results have been great regardless of the instrument. The manual offers good starting points for a lot of different applications. I don't tend to use the exact settings that they show, but do use them as a starting point. Avalon has a tendency to make products that don't do much in the way of coloring your tone, but the coloring they do is almost always fantastic. Low/no noise, high headroom, clean, punchy, fat and simply great all around regardless of the clean application provided you're willing to familiarize yourself with the controls and go through the necessary amount of knob fiddling to get where you want to go.

[Balog]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I've got a 1,200-watt Fender MB-1200 mono-block bass power amp in the ads right now. Cheep. Make me an offer. They're $1K at GC. It dominates ... goes down to 2 ohms. Looks like this.

Fender MB-1200 for sale.

That's a beautiful thing, but I was asking about the sub-$100 for a reason. Unless you'll ship that thing to WA for $50, or wait a few months while I save up more I'll have to pass. Too bad, that's lovely.

[johnk_10]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

have you used the avalon or those other pres as actual mic pres or with other instruments?

yeah. vocals, and mics on drums & guitar, and it sounded great on all of them.