|  | | 
06-04-2011, 10:31 PM
|  | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Athens, GA | | | Bassists vs. Guitarists and Master Volume
Sign in to disble this ad
Got my Ampeg V4 out of the shop and it is killer for guitar and for bass.Two guitar players checked it out (independently) and both immediately dimed the master volume, then used the channel vol to control their loudness.
I have always come at the volume from the other direction. With the master channel vol set midway I adjust the channel vol / gain as high as will give me the sound I want while not clipping the pre. Then I adjust the master vol for overall volume.
Are my friends weird? Do guitar players usually do that? Do most bass players use an approach like I use?
__________________
Ampeg Family Reunion #803
Ampeg Portaflex Club #195
PIA Special Agent
|
06-04-2011, 10:39 PM
| | Banned | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Richmond, Va | | | My Hartke has two preamp channels: a solid state, and a tube emulator. I adjust both of those, then the graphic eq and low/high pass filters to get the sound I want, then use the master for volume control.
Not sure how guitar players do it though. |
06-04-2011, 10:39 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brooklyn, NY | | | Doing such has a very different effect on an amp that is made to get distorted like a guitar amp (well many of them), than an amp that is supposed to stay clean throughout, like a bass amp (again, most of them).
I also find guitarists use their volume knobs on their instruments more during a performance, where as many bassists I know are full on volume all the time.
I think it's the expectations and roles of the instruments. I know I play Orange amps which get nice and crunchy when you mix the gain vs master, so I might be inclined to occasionally use your guitarists method when checking out an amp, depending on the sound I was going for. |
06-05-2011, 04:31 AM
| | | | Sounds to me like you have got it spot on - I do exactly the same with my TB500 |
06-05-2011, 04:42 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA | | | If using a tube amp, I dime the gain and set the volume with the master.
__________________
Anime-ted Bass Players Group member #5. Mediocre Bassist Club member #316. 15" Club member #8. Metal Bassist Club Member #27
|
06-05-2011, 05:01 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: UK | | Guitarists are used to ratchet volume controls so maybe a different approach is required  |
06-05-2011, 05:30 AM
| | Registered User
pedal / amps - MAMMOTHsound | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: sheffield, uk | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ddbassGA  Got my Ampeg V4 out of the shop and it is killer for guitar and for bass.Two guitar players checked it out (independently) and both immediately dimed the master volume, then used the channel vol to control their loudness.
I have always come at the volume from the other direction. With the master channel vol set midway I adjust the channel vol / gain as high as will give me the sound I want while not clipping the pre. Then I adjust the master vol for overall volume.
Are my friends weird? Do guitar players usually do that? Do most bass players use an approach like I use? | Depends what you're going for with that approach you're going for. Having the master all the way up and using the preamp gain to control volume maximises headroom.
__________________
riffriff.
|
06-05-2011, 05:32 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sartori If using a tube amp, I dime the gain and set the volume with the master. | Does anything sound good with any control at max?
Not in my experience...
__________________
TC RH450 #8, MM Stingray #153, MM SUB #15, Warwick #325, OLP #13, G&L #411
|
06-05-2011, 05:39 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnach Does anything sound good with any control at max?
Not in my experience... | 
Some of us like a bit of dirt in our bass tone.
__________________
Anime-ted Bass Players Group member #5. Mediocre Bassist Club member #316. 15" Club member #8. Metal Bassist Club Member #27
|
06-05-2011, 09:08 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pelham, AL | | | I've heard of this approach before. wouldn't this just make the amp ridiculously loud and clean? or is this what they're going for? or does it overdrive the power amp section?
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralElectric It ended poorly when my boobs got stabbed and I sprayed pink water all over myself, the audience, and the bass. | |
06-05-2011, 10:16 AM
| | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Athens, GA | | | I believe it is to overdrive the power tubes.
On an amp with no master vol does the single vol control taper the pre or power amp...or both?
__________________
Ampeg Family Reunion #803
Ampeg Portaflex Club #195
PIA Special Agent
|
06-05-2011, 10:20 AM
| | | | Setting the master any lower than 10 will increase the amount of overdrive.
The lower you can put the gain, the cleaner the sound. So to me, it makes no sense to set it halfway. You're just making the amp overdrive.
If that's what you want, fine. But I want as much headroom with as clean a sound as possible.
The reason guitarists set the master lower is for that very reason -- they want some overdrive , even when playing "clean." |
06-05-2011, 12:52 PM
| | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Athens, GA | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Jerry Callo Setting the master any lower than 10 will increase the amount of overdrive.
The lower you can put the gain, the cleaner the sound. So to me, it makes no sense to set it halfway. You're just making the amp overdrive.
If that's what you want, fine. But I want as much headroom with as clean a sound as possible.
| Max master vol maxes clean and headroom ONLY IF not distorting power tubes.
__________________
Ampeg Family Reunion #803
Ampeg Portaflex Club #195
PIA Special Agent
|
06-05-2011, 02:01 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Duluth, MN | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Callo
The reason guitarists set the master lower is for that very reason -- they want some overdrive , even when playing "clean."
| But the OP's guitarist friends did the opposite of this. I'm not sure if they were going for a clean sound, or were uninformed. |
06-05-2011, 02:05 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ddbassGA Two guitar players checked it out (independently) and both immediately dimed the master volume, then used the channel vol to control their loudness. | And that's why we call them guitar'd players. The gain is used to determine the saturation (crunch) of the pre, the master the output volume. The prudent method is to set the master at 1/4 to 1/3, turn up the gain until you get the desired crunch level, then turn up the master some more, if required, for playing level. And then there's the guitar'd method.  |
06-05-2011, 02:07 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Timisoara, Romania | | | depends on the amp. some of them just give a more 'full' distortion when the master is maxed [esp guitar amps]
__________________
No Sig
|
06-05-2011, 02:09 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Westfield, MA, USA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ddbassGA On an amp with no master vol does the single vol control taper the pre or power amp...or both? | A non master volume amp is usually about the same as a master volume amp with the master wide open.
__________________
faster than a laser bullet
louder than an atom bomb
|
06-05-2011, 02:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northwest Indiana | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnach Does anything sound good with any control at max?
Not in my experience... | Yes.
Dixie Dave of the band Weedeater dimes the volume, bass, and mids on his Sunn amps, treble all the way down, to get his distortion. No pedals. 400 watts (probably more with everything dimed) through 4 15's. Weedeater - Dirt Merchant
At about 2:46 in you hear the bass real clear.
__________________
OCCUPY
www(((O)))facebook(((O)))com/pages/Mors/125731337481772
|
06-05-2011, 02:29 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ddbassGA Max master vol maxes clean and headroom ONLY IF not distorting power tubes. | Not sure what you're saying. Even with a solid state amp -- put the master on 1 and the gain on 8 and you'll get distortion. |
06-05-2011, 02:37 PM
| | Registered User
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design | | Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Hampshire | | Quote:
Originally Posted by projectMalamute A non master volume amp is usually about the same as a master volume amp with the master wide open. | Pretty much. With volume control only amps the control traditionally was between the first and second gain stages. You dimed the volume control to get distortion in the final stage before the power amp. Good tone, but loud. The master volume was added to allow running the gain high for crunch while reducing the level into the power amp to keep levels sensible. But with the current generation of guitar'd players 'sensible level' seems to be an oxymoron.
Last edited by billfitzmaurice : 06-05-2011 at 03:20 PM.
| | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | |
