The battle of the 412s

**lowfreqgeek** · #1 06-22-2010, 10:01 AM

After years of using 15s and 10s, I finally found 12s to be the perfect speaker for me. I started off with Aguilar GS112s a few years ago, then ended up with an Epifani UL502 driving 2 UL112s. For 90% of my gigs, one or two UL112s is perfect. Plenty of bottom, just the right midrange, good clarity and cut, a sweet top that's never harsh or sizzly.

But I need more. More more more. I've been jonesing for a 4-12, or 2 2-12 cabs to run under the Epifani (4-ohms min) and a YTD alternate head (GK Fusion-series maybe?).

I don't have the option to try anything locally, so I need user opinions on the available options: Bergantino NV412, Aguilar GS412, GK Neo 412, Mesa 4x12 Powerhouse, Dr. Bass DRB412... and anything else I'm missing.

Honestly, cost is a factor, so best bang-for-the-buck is important. However, I'm not opposed to spending more if there's a big difference in one cab over the other. The specs are all over the place on these (GK's published spec is 54Hz low rolloff??), but I'm more interested in how they *sound*.

Can anyone comment on the options?

Alexander · #2 06-22-2010, 10:24 AM

I'm a big fan of the Bergantino NV412, personally and have been using it with my SVT2 Pro with great results. A big difference between it and the others you mentioned is that it is a sealed, tweeterless design (I believe the others are ported with tweeters). With a nice fat tube head, it tightens things up beautifully with clarity, focus and musicality. If you're using a tighter, more mid-focused SS head, you might want a wider cabinet to even things out a bit, making the other cabs a better choice. Not saying you can't run the Berg with a SS head at all - you can, but getting the pairing right to deliver your tone is important...

main_sale · #3 06-22-2010, 11:52 AM

I sold my G-B 410XB and picked up a G-B NeoX 212T. I like it so much that I bought a second one. Let me tell you, my SVT-VR pushing both NeoX 212T's together in uber loud and tone Nirvana!!!!

**B-string** · #4 06-22-2010, 12:26 PM

Bang for the buck...the G-K NEO 412. Light, responsive, plenty of low end with a 5 string, mids really push through the mix (while the house rattles). I think mine will be three years old in December! Band mates have never been happier with my sound and the bass players in my little city want it!
Using the G-K Fusion 550 to power it but before that, an 800RB and occationally a V4-B.

sammyfallen · #5 06-22-2010, 01:07 PM

bang for buck = Peavey412TXF

**lowfreqgeek** · #6 06-22-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyfallen

bang for buck = Peavey412TXF

But it says "Peavey" on it...

Joking aside, I thought about that one after I posted. I'd love to check one (or any of the others) out if I could find it locally.

Thanks.

EDIT: I'm not opposed to Peavey. I've had Peavey gear before and find it acceptable, though a bit "utilitarian", but there's nothing wrong with that - and I did specify "bang-for-buck".

sledz · #7 06-22-2010, 02:27 PM

Is there any info about old bass Orange 412?

Frankie Fender · #8 06-22-2010, 02:36 PM

The Fender Bassman 100 with the 412 cab was a joke, I owned one back in the day. The newer 412 cabs are soooo much better. Lots of good choices out there.

D.A.R.K. · #9 06-22-2010, 02:39 PM

i play through marshall 4x12 guitar cabs a lot.
you need an additional cab for serious low end extension,
but it's hard to beat for the rock.
no, you don't blow them up if you run them at reasonable levels,
just like any other speaker cab.
i prefer the b(straight) cabs.

badboy1984 · #10 06-22-2010, 02:40 PM

i'm think about 4x12 today, nice low end and mid.

I can score a nice Marshall VBC 4x12 and i gonan try it out in shop first.

What you think of the marshall? planning to use it on a Little Mark 250

**cosmicpimp2** · #11 06-22-2010, 02:43 PM

Emperor 4x12 or 2 2x12 for easy moving around. they use eminence speakers (mine all have legends). they can custom build it for you and load what ever speakers you want (I think Eminence are the best for 12's and 15's). When I bought my stuff it was cheap and I got a good hook up with them.

sammyfallen · #12 06-22-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreqgeek

But it says "Peavey" on it...

Joking aside, I thought about that one after I posted. I'd love to check one (or any of the others) out if I could find it locally.

Thanks.

EDIT: I'm not opposed to Peavey. I've had Peavey gear before and find it acceptable, though a bit "utilitarian", but there's nothing wrong with that - and I did specify "bang-for-buck".

I thought the same thing Peavey Cabs = EWWW!

Until, Someone had a Peavey 412 For Sale On CL (For $100)

I went Tried it out with a V4B, and was FLOORED! (Try it with something like a Sunn 300T or SVT and you'll never look back...)

Payed him and in the truck it went, I Felt like a crook...

It is the only Peavey cab I like aside from the old 215D (I have used other Cabs by them)

I have had cabs from a lot of great Manufacturers, but nothing can beat the peavey...

It is my Favorite Cab EVER (and for Only $100)

rpsands · #13 06-22-2010, 02:56 PM

Arrrgh. AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links Then look for Speaker Sizes. They do not determine tone.

**lowfreqgeek** · #14 06-22-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Arrrgh. AMPS FAQ!! Info on OHMS, Allsize RIGS-OverUnderPowerCabs DIY TechTalk-Links Then look for Speaker Sizes. They do not determine tone.

Yeah... I get it. Size alone does not determine "tone". The amp doesn't either, and not really the bass, for that matter. "Tone" is in the hands.

That said, 12" cabs tend to be voiced a little different than 15s, which are voiced different than 10s, or 8s or whatever. A raw 12 will sound different than a raw 15 and a well-designed cabinet will play off those differences. I'm not asking for a comparison of speaker sizes; I'm asking what 412 cabs people like and why.

Jaco who? · #15 06-22-2010, 04:03 PM

I use a pair of Avatar 2x12s and to me they respond better than most 2x10 or 4x10 cabs to tweeks in eq settings to compensate for carpeted/tiled, muddy/bright rooms. They certainly aren't the most well thought out perfectly engineered boxes out there, but they work for me.

I get to use a Genz Benz NeoX212T every once and awhile too, you ought to give those a try. More articulate than the Avatars, more dough too. I think I'd really get depressed if I tried out the Ubers.

rpsands · #16 06-22-2010, 04:09 PM

No, 12" cabinets do not tend to be voiced differently than 10s or 15s, any more than 12" cabinets tend to be voiced differently than other 12" cabinets.

Go compare a GK Neo 4x12 to an Nv412 to an SWR 12-stack, to a Mesa 4x12. They all sound very different.

Throw in 2x12s, a Neox212T to a schroeder 1212L. Different as night and day.

**lowfreqgeek** · #17 06-22-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

No, 12" cabinets do not tend to be voiced differently than 10s or 15s, any more than 12" cabinets tend to be voiced differently than other 12" cabinets.

Go compare a GK Neo 4x12 to an Nv412 to an SWR 12-stack, to a Mesa 4x12. They all sound very different.

Throw in 2x12s, a Neox212T to a schroeder 1212L. Different as night and day.

So what's the problem? I know they'll sound very different, which is why I'm asking. Besides, I never said there was anything wrong with 10s or 15s; I said I prefer 12s. That is completely a function of the particular cabs I've owned. I'm an engineer - this isn't foreign to me. I simply like the concept of 4-12s vs. 6-10s or 2-15s for an otherwise similar size cabinet. YMMV.

You insinuate that you have experience with GK, Berg, SWR, and Mesa cabs, so how about you give some of your opinions on each?

rpsands · #18 06-22-2010, 05:29 PM

I've played Gk, Mesa and SWR 4x12s. Preference is by far the SWR. It's more convenient a shape and has a unique character due to the drivers being kind of guitarrish (low Xmax, lots of driver distortion). Cool sound.

My point is you should use what gets your tonal goals the best and not restrict yourself to one driver size arbitrarily. What is it you like about the 4x12? Most of them are the size and weight of an 8x10, and are inferior performers.

My second choice'd be a Mesa 4x12 but I'd rather have a Mesa 6x10 or 8x10 than either of those. By a long shot. Plenty of bottom on any of them.

That said the only 4x12 I would ever buy would be a 12-stack. I'd be happy to use a mesa or GK for a backline or something or if someone gave it to me

Bottom line what I'm gettin at by pointing out the massive tonal differences is that most 4x12s are as different from each other as they are from 8x10s or 6x10s or 2x15s...so why not just consider everything?

**lowfreqgeek** · #19 06-22-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

I've played Gk, Mesa and SWR 4x12s. Preference is by far the SWR. It's more convenient a shape and has a unique character due to the drivers being kind of guitarrish (low Xmax, lots of driver distortion). Cool sound.

My point is you should use what gets your tonal goals the best and not restrict yourself to one driver size arbitrarily. What is it you like about the 4x12? Most of them are the size and weight of an 8x10, and are inferior performers.

My second choice'd be a Mesa 4x12 but I'd rather have a Mesa 6x10 or 8x10 than either of those. By a long shot. Plenty of bottom on any of them.

That said the only 4x12 I would ever buy would be a 12-stack. I'd be happy to use a mesa or GK for a backline or something or if someone gave it to me

Bottom line what I'm gettin at by pointing out the massive tonal differences is that most 4x12s are as different from each other as they are from 8x10s or 6x10s or 2x15s...so why not just consider everything?

Cool. Thanks for your input.

I'll be honest, what I like about a 412 is that every 12" stack I've ever gigged with was awesome and it makes me want to explore a 412 cab. I don't see how they are necessarily inferior to any other configuration; just different.

I've previously owned and gigged a lot with 10s (SWR, Peavey, Eden, EA) and 15's (Ampeg, Peavey, Dietz, Bag End) and just found I like the particular 12's I've had (Aguilar, Genz Benz, Epifani) more. That's probably as much a function of the particular cabs, and even amps, as much as anything else.

The one exception to my love for 12's was a Markbass combo. Markbass is cool, but that combo was horribly one-dimensional sounding. The only thing that helped at all, and only minimally, was damping the ports just a bit. I can't get into Markbass after that. I actually used it on a gig and had an awful time getting a usable sound out of my otherwise incredible Pbass. It was either too thin or too muddy, but I couldn't get clarity and depth at the same time like my other rigs. So I'd agree that not all 12's are created equal.

Maybe it's a passing fad for me. Who knows, but thanks for your input.

will33 · #20 06-22-2010, 08:09 PM

If GK's spec says rolloff at 54hz, that's likely the most honest of the bunch. None of those other cabs will truely go much if any deeper than that unless they are low in SPL. As for midrange character, "tone" etc. that's up to you but don't get suckered for some deep response number. Best thing you can do is cover up all the labels or audition them all from behind a curtain or with your back turned towards them. You'd be amazed at what you like/don't like.