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08-13-2011, 08:51 AM
| | |  Becoming VERY Frustrated
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I'm running 6x10 worth of speakers at a total of 770Watts.. And I am on the verge of clipping at rehearsal just to sit in the mix with a guitar player's Fender Deville and a Drumset.. I'm really starting to think that there's something wrong with my amp. I've tried boosting the mids, i've tried cutting the lows.. They all help but I still have to work the hell out of the amp.. and i'm starting to break up at high volumes. Any suggestions? I'm to the point where i'm considering selling the rig and buying something else.
Rig Specs:
Eden WT550 - 300W@8ohm, 500W@4ohm, 750W@2ohm
Eden 410XLT - 700W RMS @ 4ohm
Eden 210XST - 500W RMS @ 4ohm
Last edited by lesburton : 08-13-2011 at 09:26 AM.
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08-13-2011, 09:04 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kingston, ON, Canada | | | I'm not well versed in the whole amp / cab math, but it looks like you are trying to pull too much power out of the amp to drive your cabs.
your head is rated to drive 500 watts at 4 ohm and you're trying to drive 1200 watts worth of cab. try using only the 210 and see what happens.
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Originally Posted by yep_scottthunes  non gustibus disputatum est, bitch. |
Last edited by BassNeo : 08-13-2011 at 09:05 AM.
Reason: Diction and enunciation
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08-13-2011, 09:04 AM
| | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: Steve Clayton Accessories | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Texas | | | Two 4 ohm (which I'm guessing you meant rather than watts) cabinets is 8 ohms, meaning you're running them at 300W, which isn't all that much headroom. Try it with just the 410 cab by itself, might actually be better. |
08-13-2011, 09:06 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kingston, ON, Canada | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickengeezer Two 4 ohm (which I'm guessing you meant rather than watts) cabinets is 8 ohms, meaning you're running them at 300W, which isn't all that much headroom. Try it with just the 410 cab by itself, might actually be better. | Doesn't that only apply if you're running them in series?
This begs the question on how the OP has them hooked up.
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Originally Posted by yep_scottthunes non gustibus disputatum est, bitch. | |
08-13-2011, 09:17 AM
| | | | Running the head into both cabs can only be done in parellel (the way the manufacturer designed them). Running two 4ohm cabs together in this way changes the overall impedance to 2ohms.. at 2ohms this head delivers a total of 750 watts.. that divided by two (for two cabs) is 375watts per cab.
Although the cabs' RMS is rated higher than this, it is not a problem.. And it's my understanding that the bulk of volume comes from amount of speakers and not entirely on watts. |
08-13-2011, 09:18 AM
| | | | So this is the way I see it. Although i'm underpowering the cabs a bit, 6 10s should be more than enough (even at 375 watts a piece) to adequately compete and in my mind, blow the rest of the band out of the water.. but it does anything but that. |
08-13-2011, 09:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA | | | Are your two cabinets in series (8 Ohm) or paralell (2 Ohm)? (never mind; see above)
Does it break-up if you only run one cabinet?
"Sit in the mix". What mix is that? Are you wearing IEMs or headphones?
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Last edited by PhiDeck : 08-13-2011 at 09:23 AM.
Reason: crossed posts
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08-13-2011, 09:21 AM
| | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: Steve Clayton Accessories | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Texas | | | Yeah, I guess parallel would be 2 ohms, so if hooked up that way that would be the 750w version, in theory. Don't think I've ever run an amp at 2 ohms, many can't handle it and it would make me a little nervous. I'd still just try using the 410, adding the 210 seems kind of redundant to me anyhow. |
08-13-2011, 09:22 AM
|  | Signed, Sealed, Delivered | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NY & MA | | Quote:
Originally Posted by lesburton I'm running 6x10 worth of speakers at a total of 770Watts.. And I am on the verge of clipping at rehearsal just to sit in the mix with a guitar player's Fender Deville and a Drumset.. I'm really starting to think that there's something wrong with my amp. I've tried boosting the mids, i've tried cutting the lows.. They all help but I still have to work the hell out of the amp.. and i'm starting to break up at high volumes. Any suggestions? I'm to the point where i'm considering selling the rig and buying something else.
Rig Specs:
Eden WT550 - 300W@8ohm, 500W@4ohm, 750W@2ohm
Eden 410XLT - 700W RMS @ 4watts
Eden 210XST - 500W RMS @ 4watts | Okay... first... post this in the "Amps" section of Talkbass.
That said... I'll take a leap here and believe that you just did a typo with your rig specs. You've got an amp capable of 750w @ 2 ohms and you're running 2 cabs rated @ 4 ohms each to get your full 750w from your amp. If all that is correct...
How large is your rehearsal space? NFN, but that's a whole lot of volume. And if there's only 2 other players in the project, I'll take a leap and say the space might be small to the point of all that volume is just crashing in on itself and becoming mud.
On the other hand, there might be something amiss with your rig, in which case the folks over at the AMPS section will no doubt chime in with lots of opinions  |
08-13-2011, 09:30 AM
| | | | reposting now. sorry about that. and yes it was a typo - i just changed it. The 410 alone cannot hold up to the band at all.. with the 210 and 410 i have a chance of competing with volume.. with the 410 alone i have no chance.
The rehearsal space is smaller.. But it seems even in other spaces, or at gigs, and I can't seem to get up to a descent stage volume.. and it doesn't make much sense to me considering the amp.
I know 2ohms is running a bit hot.. and i am considering slaving a power amp to resolve that issue.. however.. even if the power amp increases the available watts and lightens the load ohm wise, I don't forsee a significant volume increase.. because i'm still running the same cabs and same amount of speakers.... |
08-13-2011, 09:31 AM
| | | Becoming VERY Frustrated!
I'm running 6x10 worth of speakers at a total of 770Watts.. And I am on the verge of clipping at rehearsal just to sit in the mix with a guitar player's Fender Deville and a Drumset.. I'm really starting to think that there's something wrong with my amp. I've tried boosting the mids, i've tried cutting the lows.. They all help but I still have to work the hell out of the amp.. and i'm starting to break up at high volumes. Any suggestions? I'm to the point where i'm considering selling the rig and buying something else.
Rig Specs:
Eden WT550 - 300W@8ohm, 500W@4ohm, 750W@2ohm
Eden 410XLT - 700W RMS @ 4ohm
Eden 210XST - 500W RMS @ 4ohm |
08-13-2011, 09:32 AM
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08-13-2011, 09:35 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Missouri | | | Because your speakers are the same load, the power is divided between them evenly.
So you have 350 watts going to a 210 (175w per speaker)
and 350 watts going to the 410 (87.5w per speaker)
So with the 210 working twice as hard as the 410, that's the sound you are going to hear. Unplug it and let your 410 take all the juice and see if that sounds better.
Even though your amp is rated at 2 ohms, it's quite a load on it. I would not recommend running it at that.
edit: sniped by a couple of posts... if the 410 is not enough, there's something wrong. Just speculating, but perhaps that 2 ohm load has sent your amp to an early grave.
Last edited by Nev375 : 08-13-2011 at 09:39 AM.
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08-13-2011, 09:54 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: austin,tx | | | Likely boundry cancellations in the room. No amount of volume will fix that. Try positioning the rig in different spots in the room..listen to the different frequencies that disappear or jump out in different spots.
Tell everybody to turn down. Both you and the guitarist have plenty of volume available, both your rigs should be idling in a typical size practice room. |
08-13-2011, 09:57 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix. Az. | | | Just stop playing during a song sometime and listen to how much bass your guitarists rig is producing. If he's got his bass frequencies boosted and/or has amp located in a corner of the room, he's stepping all over your frequency and you'd be fighting a loosing battle using any bass rig.
You should also do the 9-volt battery polarity test with each of your cabs and their speaker cables. If anything is wired out of phase you'd end up with very poor results.
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08-13-2011, 10:02 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: austin,tx | | Quote:
Originally Posted by anderbass Just stop playing during a song sometime and listen to how much bass your guitarists rig is producing. If he's got his bass frequencies boosted and/or has amp located in a corner of the room, he's stepping all over your frequency and you'd be fighting a loosing battle using any bass rig.
You should also do the 9-volt battery polarity test with each of your cabs and their speaker cables. If anything is wired out of phase you'd end up with very poor results. | +1 |
08-13-2011, 10:17 AM
|  | Regal User | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orange County, CA | | | Is it both cabs that are giving up the ghost? Because running a 210 and a 410 simultaneously gets uneven powering. The 210 is getting the same amount of power that the 410 is, but can only handle 1/2 of that power. So, it seems very possible that you have headroom left on the 410 but the 210 can't take anymore. Thus, clipping at high volumes.
Phase issues with the room or the speakers, or the guitarists diming their bass knobs could also be factors. |
08-13-2011, 10:26 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by lesburton I'm running 6x10 worth of speakers at a total of 770Watts.. And I am on the verge of clipping at rehearsal just to sit in the mix with a guitar player's Fender Deville and a Drumset.. I'm really starting to think that there's something wrong with my amp. I've tried boosting the mids, i've tried cutting the lows.. They all help but I still have to work the hell out of the amp.. and i'm starting to break up at high volumes. Any suggestions? I'm to the point where i'm considering selling the rig and buying something else.
Rig Specs:
Eden WT550 - 300W@8ohm, 500W@4ohm, 750W@2ohm
Eden 410XLT - 700W RMS @ 4ohm
Eden 210XST - 500W RMS @ 4ohm | the 210 and 410 are the same impedance. the 210 is getting twice the wattage to just 2 speakers.
You're probably overdriving these two.
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08-13-2011, 10:47 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seweracuse, NY | | Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey the 210 and 410 are the same impedance. the 210 is getting twice the wattage to just 2 speakers.
You're probably overdriving these two. | This. This. This.
You can't ask the 210 to eat as much power as the 4x10. Its limiting your volume and your power handling.
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