Berg CN212 vs Big E 8x5

[3rdcurve]

This is one of the few times (probably only time) that I have the opportunity to try out a couple of cabs that several people are interested in, so I am going to do some more testing and try to give an in depth / unbiased review. Currently have two projects going, one blues - the other hard rock. I will try to use them in both contexts.

I spent a few hours a/b'ing them yesterday. They are different for sure, but actually more similar than I expected. The CN212/streamliner matchup has really impressed me, and I could have been completely satisfied with that combo, I just had to hear one of the 85's. The big E is doing some things that I am still trying to wrap my head around. When switching back and forth between the two cabs in a smallish room (15x19), there were draws to each. The CN212 has a tone that just sounds right along with a form factor and weight that can't be beat. Yet, after the fam came home and my testing was put on hiatus...... I couldn't stop thinking about what was going on with the 85.

I will leave you now with this:

While setting the cabs up outside ( I live in the sticks, so no neighbors to tick off ), I noticed a VERY odd thing. Unlike every other bass cab I have come across, the lows on the big E seemed to get bigger!

More details to come!

[KJung]

Nice pair of cabs there! Those E's sure are unique looking. Lots of tweeters, lots of little drivers, lots of ports! Kind of a Phil Jones on steroids vibe (the cabs, not the man!).

[3rdcurve]

LOL, funny you say that Ken as my wife thinks it came from the matrix!

[Jim C]

sub'd
Any chance you'll carry both for a gig report?

[pfschim]

very interesting, thanks for posting this.

can the tweets on the 85 be cut or turned off ? I like a bit of high end snap in my cabs, but not too much, and really like the ability to attenuate the upper high end on my cabs.

[rpsands]

They put this knob on most basses and amps that will attenuate the upper high end.

[Mike Arnopol]

I can if you really want it. The highs on the 85 aren't like bass cab or pa highs. Much more like very neutral hifi stereo highs. Meaning that I actually turn them up a bit sometimes. And RP is right---these tweets are crossed over very high---right where your amp's hi frequency control is. My goal as far as highs on the MAS (as we're now calling them--Big E is the technology) speakers is highs that extend all the way but give the definition without calling attention to themselves---if that makes any sense.

[Mike Arnopol]

Another thing if I may say---with the 85 I had a little different design goals than going head-to-head with a 212.

Everyone that tried the 45 said that it was one of the best EB sounds that they'd heard.And at least for my taste I'd agree. It just didn't go loud enough for my gigs. So--just for my own purposes---I stacked two of them and realized that they would hold up to the best single 15 cabs. In terms of stage volume. I don't play a gig where I need more volume than that.

So for me--the 85 is an exercise in taking what I consider to be one of the best sounding nearly full range drivers (the Faital 5) and using enough of them to eek out enough volume. And adding a high end that was seamless with the 5's.

[3rdcurve]

Just finished a Jam with the 85, heading to a BBQ. Will check in later with some info.

[3rdcurve]

Disclaimer:

This is all one mans humble, and in no way professional opinion and experience!

I got to spend a couple of hours with the 85 yesterday. I have been playing music with my best friend/drummer for 8 years or so, minus a recent 10 month hiatus due to life and work getting in the way. We moved ourselves into a well insulated area and turned it up.

I first want to say that I can understand Mike's reluctance to post clips of these cabs. While the tone is fantastic, the real appeal of these cabs comes from something that doesn't translate to youtube.

The feel you get is the draw for me. I have always had a preference for the feel of sealed cabs (and ported ones that react like sealed one). I can honestly say that I prefer the feel of this cab to that of my sealed cabs. I spent a while trying to figure out how to describe it, so here it goes:

With most ported cabs it always seemed like there was a delay at the start and more so the end of a played note. It is more apparent in the lower registers. Even playing very percussively it seemed that the edges of the note were softened. The Berg CN212 and Baer ML112 really doesn't suffer near as much from this as most ported cabs I have tried, yet they still have some inherent traits.

With the sealed cabs that I have played (i.e. ampeg 810 mostly), the cabs seem to respond quicker. The quicker response has really seemed to go hand in hand with a more congested sound, with attenuated lows and bumped low mids. It also seemed that the highs weren't as open.

Enter the MAS 8x5:
Looks, tone, portability, weight, fit & finish, volume capabilities, that all comes later. This is about feel. The response of the 5" is incredible. The sound jumps out at you as if your strings are directly connected to them. Once you start getting the vortex(or whatever wild terminology they are using for it now) going, the 85 becomes increasingly .....ummm let's say MUSICAL. I noticed it really start to take effect before I hit half volume on my STM900. What I was getting with a bit of an aggressive pick attack was the most addictive and rewarding playing experience I have had. It was inspiring. After 10 months of not playing together, my buddy and I were able to lock in as well as we ever had before. The cab is VERY dynamic. If you play something smooth you get something smooth, if you play something aggressive you get something aggressive. Yes, thats what all cabs do... but this "feels" different. Every note is separated. Pluck the notes of a chord. They ring out individually and stay that way, no getting muddled as they decay. What I have found, is that this particular cabinet is by far the most EXPRESIVE that I have had the good fortune to play.

I know, I sound like a fanboy...............

but there really is something going on with this technology.

I am going to spend some more time with this cab and the CN212(My favorite cab up till tis point), and try them head to head in a band situation.

More to come!

[3rdcurve]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Another thing if I may say---with the 85 I had a little different design goals than going head-to-head with a 212.

Everyone that tried the 45 said that it was one of the best EB sounds that they'd heard.And at least for my taste I'd agree. It just didn't go loud enough for my gigs. So--just for my own purposes---I stacked two of them and realized that they would hold up to the best single 15 cabs. In terms of stage volume. I don't play a gig where I need more volume than that.

So for me--the 85 is an exercise in taking what I consider to be one of the best sounding nearly full range drivers (the Faital 5) and using enough of them to eek out enough volume. And adding a high end that was seamless with the 5's.

Have no fear Mike, the 85 holds its own against the loudest 212 I have heard. Not quite as loud overall, but MUCH closer than I had anticipated.

[Balog]

An audience report of the dispersion thing would be very interesting.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

Disclaimer:

This is all one mans humble, and in no way professional opinion and experience!

I got to spend a couple of hours with the 85 yesterday. I have been playing music with my best friend/drummer for 8 years or so, minus a recent 10 month hiatus due to life and work getting in the way. We moved ourselves into a well insulated area and turned it up.

I first want to say that I can understand Mike's reluctance to post clips of these cabs. While the tone is fantastic, the real appeal of these cabs comes from something that doesn't translate to youtube.

The feel you get is the draw for me. I have always had a preference for the feel of sealed cabs (and ported ones that react like sealed one). I can honestly say that I prefer the feel of this cab to that of my sealed cabs. I spent a while trying to figure out how to describe it, so here it goes:

With most ported cabs it always seemed like there was a delay at the start and more so the end of a played note. It is more apparent in the lower registers. Even playing very percussively it seemed that the edges of the note were softened. The Berg CN212 and Baer ML112 really doesn't suffer near as much from this as most ported cabs I have tried, yet they still have some inherent traits.

With the sealed cabs that I have played (i.e. ampeg 810 mostly), the cabs seem to respond quicker. The quicker response has really seemed to go hand in hand with a more congested sound, with attenuated lows and bumped low mids. It also seemed that the highs weren't as open.

Enter the MAS 8x5:
Looks, tone, portability, weight, fit & finish, volume capabilities, that all comes later. This is about feel. The response of the 5" is incredible. The sound jumps out at you as if your strings are directly connected to them. Once you start getting the vortex(or whatever wild terminology they are using for it now) going, the 85 becomes increasingly .....ummm let's say MUSICAL. I noticed it really start to take effect before I hit half volume on my STM900. What I was getting with a bit of an aggressive pick attack was the most addictive and rewarding playing experience I have had. It was inspiring. After 10 months of not playing together, my buddy and I were able to lock in as well as we ever had before. The cab is VERY dynamic. If you play something smooth you get something smooth, if you play something aggressive you get something aggressive. Yes, thats what all cabs do... but this "feels" different. Every note is separated. Pluck the notes of a chord. They ring out individually and stay that way, no getting muddled as they decay. What I have found, is that this particular cabinet is by far the most EXPRESIVE that I have had the good fortune to play.

I know, I sound like a fanboy...............

but there really is something going on with this technology.

I am going to spend some more time with this cab and the CN212(My favorite cab up till tis point), and try them head to head in a band situation.

More to come!

Nice. I can totally see where those very small, very high quality drivers in a ported cab would give you a bit of the sealed- fridge sort of vibe (i.e., a strong mid-mid response), and that the tweeter bank would extend that up into the treble region for more clarity. Your experience was similar to what I heard with the prototypes I tried at Mike's house.

That very midrange oriented voicing does give you a more 'immediate' feel for sure.

[3rdcurve]

The tone was actually very neutral.

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

The tone was actually very neutral.

I will agree and say that my 85 is anything but midrange voiced. I don't like mid-forward voicing and sold my TH500 because of this preference.

[kringle77]

Great description of the different between ported and sealed. Thats how I hear and feel it too.

[GRoberts]

Kjungs Comment "The very Midranged oriented voicing" ...that sort of turned me off. Happy to know it's more neutral.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Kjungs Comment "The very Midranged oriented voicing" ...that sort of turned me off. Happy to know it's more neutral.

Again, 'midrange voiced' does not in any way mean 'not neutral'. Just like a sealed cab, the ratio of deep low end to midrange is quite different. This is not a good nor a bad thing. I was actually agreeing completely with the OP's description, which is what I also heard, and can accurately be described as the impression of a 'quick response'.

A cab can be quite neutral within its range and have a very different range than another cab that is also 'neutral'. As with a sealed cab (I also agree with that description), a nice even midrange response and a tight low end, with a steep drop-off and in bass, can result in a very pleasant, immediate tone. Crossfire the drivers, and there you go! Add the clarity of that tweeter bank, and there you go some more!

[3rdcurve]

Originally Posted by Balog

An audience report of the dispersion thing would be very interesting.

Agreed. My only issue is neither of my projects have gigs scheduled in the near future. What I plan to do is reach out to some fellow local gigging bassists and offer my rig for a night or two.That way I can roam around the venue and get a feel for whats going on. In a perfect world I would hold out for my own gigs, but alas one of these beauties will be leaving to pay my remaining balance on this......

Custom Medium Scale Build: Muckelroy Content

[KJung]

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

Agreed. My only issue is neither of my projects have gigs scheduled in the near future. What I plan to do is reach out to some fellow local gigging bassists and offer my rig for a night or two.That way I can roam around the venue and get a feel for whats going on. In a perfect world I would hold out for my own gigs, but alas one of these beauties will be leaving to pay my remaining balance on this......

Custom Medium Scale Build: Muckelroy Content

Hey, it sounds from your review that you will be keeping the 8x5. However, if you end up keeping the Berg and selling the 8 x 5, could you give me first shot at it. I've been wanting to try one of the 'finished' versions of these, and since I'm in St. Louis gigging so much, you wouldn't have to ship!

If you end up selling the CN212, let me know and I'll spread the word for you in St. Louis and maybe save you some shipping and hassle