The Berg HD212 Thread!!

Jefe · #1 11-22-2011, 07:55 AM

I know these are super new, but I believe there are a few floating around here on TB. Hoping we could gather peoples experiences and comments in one place (the AE212 thread took off into a wealth of info).

If you have played one, own one, want one, touched one, talk about it here.

I have serious new cab GAS and as a current owner of a NV610, former owner of an HT/EX-ER stack, HT115 and HT210; this cab is on my short list. Hoping to pair it with a Streamliner 900, but also a pre-power rig as well.

Let's hear what the TB community has to say about this new beast.

J.Wolf · #2 11-22-2011, 07:59 AM

Curious as well, subscribed.

jnewmark · #3 11-22-2011, 08:13 AM

It would have to sound awfully damn good for me to want to haul around a 79 lb cab.

mophead · #4 11-22-2011, 08:15 AM

The Streamliner and AE212 is a nice combo. Also curious to hear about the HD212. Can't imagine that much better or different sound for the weight difference but am curious.

RColie · #5 11-22-2011, 08:32 AM

There's a fair amount of discussion about the new HD cabs on Rocket Music's sponsored forum here:

New Bergantino Cabinets!

Bob

J.Wolf · #6 11-22-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

It would have to sound awfully damn good for me to want to haul around a 79 lb cab.

I think the fact that alot of people are getting off the neo/class d bandwagon in favor of their trusty "normal" weight gear is proof that the weight savings is one "piece of the puzzle" but by no means the lynchpin.

I love a lightweight option, but I love good tone more. Not to imply that those are mutually exclusive properties, just trying to illustrate that as awesome as a super light cab is, if it doesn't perform as desired, it's missing the whole point, trading one desirable attribute for another.

tombowlus · #7 11-22-2011, 09:46 AM

I have one and have gigged with it. It's pretty darned amazing, IME/IMHO. Take everything there is to love about the AE212 (other than the weight), and beef up the lower mids, increase the dynamic impact, give it a bit more growl, and just make it sound/feel more solid, and you have a pretty good idea of how the HD212 sounds.

Not considering the IP-series cabs, this is definitely one of the best single-cab solutions I have gigged.

As far as the 78-79 pound weight is concerned, while I am a bit weight in-sensitive, this is really a very manageable cab. The handles are close enough that you can use your arms in a range where you should have the most strength, and they are placed low enough that it doesn't hit you in the knees when you carry it. The weight is not bad for short carries (in part, because of this form factor), and if you have a long haul from the car to the stage, you should consider a hand cart.

That being said, if you've been spoiled by neo cabs, then yes, these ceramic-based enclosures can take some getting used to. Just remember, folks, lift with your legs, and we'll be alright!

Tom.

KJung · #8 11-22-2011, 10:15 AM

+1 to the posts above. I bet the HD212 sounds amazing, since the 12's used in the HS112ER are really something... nice low mid push, plenty of low end, and I assume the new tweeter (from the HS/AE line) and crossover makes the HD212 a bit 'rougher' up top than the HT112ER, which would be a good thing to me.

Also, +1 that a cab that is the same size as the AE212 (I think it is pretty much the same box) and around 80 pounds is doable with a good cart, although tough to lift up on tall stages or up and down a significant number of stairs without a second person.... that would be a deal killer to me (although two HD112's would work fine).

Before I found the AE's (which are luckily MY tone versus any other Berg cab I've played), I hauled the HT322 modular 's' stack around. It was 105 pounds on the Kart-a-bag Super 600, and while it wasn't big fun (compared to the AE212, which is half the weight and actually sounds better to me

), it was 'doable'.

The good news is, neodymium is already dropping in price from its highest price level, and my guess is, things will get back to 'somewhat normal' with new neo cabs within a year or two

bucephylus · #9 11-22-2011, 11:42 AM

My take: it is GREAT that Jim has produced a cab that will fill this slot in a no compromise way for players that want the best performance and do not care about weight. Bravo.

As to the AE212 falling short on the performance end of things; boy, I sure as heck can't hear it. That cab has pretty much supplanted my NV610, and I feel zero loss in my ability to carry the gig with it. The HD may win a solo head to head contest, but I am perfectly happy with the balance of things the AE212 provides. Outstanding cab, and I feel fortunate to own and use one. GL to those the HD; no doubt it takes no prisoners.

KJung · #10 11-22-2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucephylus

My take: it is GREAT that Jim has produced a cab that will fill this slot in a no compromise way for players that want the best performance and do not care about weight. Bravo.

As to the AE212 falling short on the performance end of things; boy, I sure as heck can't hear it. That cab has pretty much supplanted my NV610, and I feel zero loss in my ability to carry the gig with it. The HD may win a solo head to head contest, but I am perfectly happy with the balance of things the AE212 provides. Outstanding cab, and I feel fortunate to own and use one. GL to those the HD; no doubt it takes no prisoners.

+1 Once you get to the level of the AE212, the HT112ER, etc., it is just a matter of 'difference' versus 'better or worse'. I, for example, greatly prefer the AE212 to the HT112ER x 2 stack (or any of the HT cabs I've owned and/or played), while others feel the opposite.

All good stuff. It is a shame the AE212 was discontinued. My guess is, that would have been a HUGE success for Jim. My guess is, you will eventually see something similar to the AE212 back in the product line when the neo thing settles out in a while.

T. Alan Smith · #11 11-22-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

My guess is, you will eventually see something similar to the AE212 back in the product line when the neo thing settles out in a while.

Hopefully, in the tolex that's being offered now.

Wait. Forget that. I can't afford another Berg ...just yet.

bucephylus · #12 11-22-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Once you get to the level of the AE212, the HT112ER, etc., it is just a matter of 'difference' versus 'better or worse'. I, for example, greatly prefer the AE212 to the HT112ER x 2 stack (or any of the HT cabs I've owned and/or played), while others feel the opposite.

All good stuff. It is a shame the AE212 was discontinued. My guess is, that would have been a HUGE success for Jim. My guess is, you will eventually see something similar to the AE212 back in the product line when the neo thing settles out in a while.

Agreed, Ken. AE or HD, Jim has a huge win with this particular 212 topology. It is my favorite bass tone in a manageable cabinet I have heard yet by a long shot. No compromise vs the 410's, but so much more even response. All good. We should be so fortunate.

speyer · #13 11-22-2011, 11:40 PM

Hey Guys, in your opinion... does the HD212 sound more HT or AE ?

Just curious because it looks like the HD212 uses classic Berg HT drivers, but applied to the AE212 design. Same tweeter/crossover's as the IP/HT line then? Sound wise, is this cab somewhere between the classic 'wide/pure' HT's and 'agressive/tight' neo AE's?

Any opinions? thanks

One Drop · #14 11-22-2011, 11:50 PM

I did finally get to try an AE212 a few months ago, with a very SVTish sounding SS amp. I was very very impressed.

If the new cab has the attributes TB describes above it really must be something special. Fortunately for me I'm flush with Bergies already (the NV cabs work great for me because I do a lot of gigs without PA, and usually with an SVT).

I'd still love to hear one in person. I love playing through good cabs with some personality, they are inspiring.

tombowlus · #15 11-23-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speyer

Hey Guys, in your opinion... does the HD212 sound more HT or AE ?

Just curious because it looks like the HD212 uses classic Berg HT drivers, but applied to the AE212 design. Same tweeter/crossover's as the IP/HT line then? Sound wise, is this cab somewhere between the classic 'wide/pure' HT's and 'agressive/tight' neo AE's?

Any opinions? thanks

It has a strong resemblance to the AE212, but with a more solid, meaty, grindy (though not really in a colored way; more of an aggressive attack thing, I guess) feel. It is pretty well balanced, and feels powerful throughout its range. I'll have to break out my old HT212 and give that a comparison, too, one of these days.

Doug Parent · #16 11-23-2011, 01:18 AM

I heard from a source who owns one, that the voice of the HD cabinet is a shifting of the AE tone profile downward. I take this to mean that the HD212 will have forceful lows and less upper mids compared to the AE212.

I saw the HD212 and HD210 cabs at Bass San Diego. Very nice clean lines with the tolex covering. Hopefully it holds up well. Looking forward to hearing some reviews of this new line.

Munjibunga · #17 11-23-2011, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucephylus

My take: it is GREAT that Jim has produced a cab that will fill this slot in a no compromise way for players that want the best performance and do not care about weight. Bravo.

As to the AE212 falling short on the performance end of things; boy, I sure as heck can't hear it. That cab has pretty much supplanted my NV610, and I feel zero loss in my ability to carry the gig with it. The HD may win a solo head to head contest, but I am perfectly happy with the balance of things the AE212 provides. Outstanding cab, and I feel fortunate to own and use one. GL to those the HD; no doubt it takes no prisoners.

Ahh, but there is a compromise - the weight. Bass San Diego has the full line and, while I didn't have time to play any the other day when I was there, I did have time to lift one. It immediately reminded me of why I switched to the AE cabs. Next time I go over there (which may be tomorrow), I'll play through a couple and report back here. They all appear to be in the same boxes as their AE counterparts, only covered in Tolex rather than the spray-on stuff. There's not much doubt in my mind they will sound awesome.

Doug Parent · #18 11-23-2011, 01:51 AM

I concur. The HD212 feels very heavy indeed.

jnewmark · #19 11-23-2011, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

I concur. The HD212 feels very heavy indeed.

It also means, ( unless you have a roadie ) the addition of a two wheel cart to schlepp it, which means more stuff to take to the gig and cram in the back of that hatchback. These days, I'm all about the schlepp, since I do my own, and the weight. Casters, lightweight head, and Neos for me ! I love a 215 cab loaded with JBL E140's, but the days of hauling one around are over for me.

KJung · #20 11-23-2011, 07:28 AM

+1 to the comments above about weight.

Interestingly, if we remember that these cabs were developed due to neo pricing pushing the AE costs above what most players would pay for a cab, you can look at this a totally different way. The heavy cabs are actually a compromise... driven more by the price premium it costs to make neo cabs now, versus any superior tonal considerations. I would be pretty sure that the HD212 would not even exist if Jim could still make money and keep the AE212 pricing down for the consumer.

Anyone who has played the AE212 or the fEArful cabs or the Thunderchild knows that there is absolutely NO compromise with a cab designer using neo drivers... zero.

So, in a way, these cabs (as good as I'm sure they are), are actually a compromise due to cost!