Bergantino 210s: HT vs HS vs AE

[Johnboch]

What's the difference tonally between these three begantino cabs? I play jazz, fusion, funk, etc. I can go to Bass Club Chicago to try one or two of these, but otherwise I can get no idea of their sound qualities. Which one is the best for my purposes?

[KJung]

The only 210's made by Bergantino at this point are the AE210 and the HS210.

The AE210 is small (very thin front to back with rear porting), lightweight (neo), spray on finish... relatively deep bass extension, lots of upper mids... modern. GREAT cab.... bright and punchy.

The HS210 is small (about the same size as the AE210), front ported (doesn't really matter, but some prefer one porting method to another), carpet, relatively heavy (around 50 pounds... non neo), low mid punchy, smooth in the upper mids... a bit more 'traditional' sounding.

The old, discontinued HT210 was very large, very heavy, and VERY modern sounding... deep bass, a bit scooped in the mids, hi fi sizzly treble. Ther ewas also a smaller HT210s that had a similar voice but was much thinner front to back.

[Jimmy Stump]

I'm intrigued by this as well. Which of the two is closest to an Epifani UL-210 in terms of tone? Really close, pretty close, not close?

Originally Posted by KJung

The only 210's made by Bergantino at this point are the AE210 and the HS210.

The AE210 is small (very thin front to back with rear porting), lightweight (neo), spray on finish... relatively deep bass extension, lots of upper mids... modern. GREAT cab.... bright and punchy.

The HS210 is small (about the same size as the AE210), front ported (doesn't really matter, but some prefer one porting method to another), carpet, relatively heavy (around 50 pounds... non neo), low mid punchy, smooth in the upper mids... a bit more 'traditional' sounding.

The old, discontinued HT210 was very large, very heavy, and VERY modern sounding... deep bass, a bit scooped in the mids, hi fi sizzly treble. Ther ewas also a smaller HT210s that had a similar voice but was much thinner front to back.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stump

I'm intrigued by this as well. Which of the two is closest to an Epifani UL-210 in terms of tone? Really close, pretty close, not close?

Neither... both are quite different from the Epi.

The UL210 has very deep bass extension (it goes way down low) and very polite lower mids (not a lot of punch). Also the tweeter is crossed over very high, so there is that 'hole' in the upper mids between the top of the driver and the tweeter that gives the UL cabs that 'sweet, airy, pure' treble response. The Berg cabs (especially the AE) overlap the top of the driver and the crossover, creating more lower treble/upper mid presence. Both the AE and especially the HS are tight down low, and emphasize the lower midrange at the expense of deep low end.

I prefer the Berg voicing (especially the AE) myself, but still enjoy the UL 'wideness' also.

I've used this oversimplified example before with these cabs:

210UL = Marcus Miller
AE210 = Flea
HS210 = Joe Osborn

[Johnboch]

Very helpful stuff guys thank you

[babebambi]

Originally Posted by KJung

The UL210 has very deep bass extension (it goes way down low) and very polite lower mids (not a lot of punch). Also the tweeter is crossed over very high, so there is that 'hole' in the upper mids between the top of the driver and the tweeter that gives the UL cabs that 'sweet, airy, pure' treble response. The Berg cabs (especially the AE) overlap the top of the driver and the crossover, creating more lower treble/upper mid presence. Both the AE and especially the HS are tight down low, and emphasize the lower midrange at the expense of deep low end.

I think Ken means "overlapping the top of the woofer and the horn". So far I think that's the best anyone has described that sound, brilliant explanation.

Ken, do you think the HT has that same "hole" as the UL in the upper mids? How would you compare these two?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by babebambi

I think Ken means "overlapping the top of the woofer and the horn". So far I think that's the best anyone has described that sound, brilliant explanation.

Ken, do you think the HT has that same "hole" as the UL in the upper mids? How would you compare these two?

+1... meant to type 'tweeter' and not 'crossover' in that sentence.

Assuming you are talking about HS (since the HT210 is not longer in the product line), no... to my ear, all of Jim's cabs have a signature type voicing that makes the tweeters very 'integrated' into the sound of the cab, versus the EpiUL's, which kind of let the tweeter sit 'on top of' the voicing of the cab. I like both approaches. The HS210 is quite even through the mid mids to the upper mids and treble. The AE actually seems to have a bump around 1k... it REALLY grinds out the upper mids, which is easily smoothed with an amp with an upper midrange control set in that 800hz to 1K region.

[Tumeni Notes]

Great explantion KJung. That helps me a lot in deciding what cabinet to get. I like a great sounding mid-range punch and growl, so it looks like the AE210 might be my cabinet of choice. I am looking at the Orange now also since Geddy is now endorsing them - although they look ugly as hell to me.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Tumeni Notes

Great explantion KJung.

Yup, +1 to what Ken said.

I am looking at the Orange now also since Geddy is now endorsing them - although they look ugly as hell to me.

Keep in mind that the only Orange cab with a tweeter is the OBC410, and Geddy is using two of these on the tour. The only 2x10 that Orange makes is the SP210, which is an isobaric design that is about the size of a deep 1x10.

Tom.

[babebambi]

Ken, I am talking about the HT. I am a fan of the big old HT cabs, I know you don't like them quite as much thou.

I don't have much experience with the UL, so I would like to know how it compares to the old HT. From what I read, the UL is quite similar to the HT.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by babebambi

Ken, I am talking about the HT. I am a fan of the big old HT cabs, I know you don't like them quite as much thou.

I don't have much experience with the UL, so I would like to know how it compares to the old HT. From what I read, the UL is quite similar to the HT.

Ah... still quite different. The old HT's took a somewhat unusual approach of a relatively high xmax driver (big lows), and then a larger than typical horn type tweeter crossed over low to 'plug the upper midrange hole' you get with hi xmax drivers. That made them very hi fi sounding to me... with the upper mids lower treble coming from that horn.

I guess the UL's would be closer to the older HT's than the current Berg 210's, but still a bit different.