Bergantino AE210 or AE112

wengr · #1 10-15-2010, 08:19 AM

Hello, Would anyone have any comments comparing the tone and ability to cut thru a mix and be heard while at a reasonably low volume of the ae210 vs ae112 vs ae112 stack? also what about the schlep factor of each? thanks in advance

tombowlus · #2 10-15-2010, 08:31 AM

Well, I like them both a lot, but the AE112 has a bit more punch through the mids, and the AE210 feels a little smoother and a little more "hi-fi." Personally, I'd have a difficult time getting by with just one of them in a live setting, but with any combination of two of them (AE210/AE210, AE112/AE112, or AE112/AE210), I'd feel good about my chances to cut through any mix. Tonally, I actually like the AE112/AE210 stack the best, but two AE112's stack really nicely and are a breeze to schlep.

wengr · #3 10-15-2010, 08:38 AM

Thanks for the reply Tom. I'm currently using one or two Aggie DB112's in a low stage volume let the PA do the work kind of situation. Can't hear them. Sound good by themselve's but seemingly to full range to cut and be heard with the band.

B String · #4 10-15-2010, 02:14 PM

I use an AE210 in my "stable" of more boxes than I need. I also have a Berg HT112 and Epifani UL112. All three are very different boxes and generally used with a Genz 9.0.

The AE210 is starting to find a special place in my heart. It seems to be voiced to be a little warm yet articulate. One of the few speaker boxes I've had leaders specifically ask me to bring to a gig. It hasn't got quite the extension in the lows, yet has fat low mids that work well in the mix. I can always hear myself very well with this box, and when I use the low boost button on the 9.0, it give a good illusion of that lower octave. When used with the UL112, it just killed. Great box.
However...

I keep going back to the covering on the AE boxes. It sucks in a big way. Probably the most fragile boxes on the market. As far as I can tell, its one step above good Black spray paint. Love the box, hate the covering.

jokerjkny · #5 10-15-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Well, I like them both a lot, but the AE112 has a bit more punch through the mids, and the AE210 feels a little smoother and a little more "hi-fi." Personally, I'd have a difficult time getting by with just one of them in a live setting, but with any combination of two of them (AE210/AE210, AE112/AE112, or AE112/AE210), I'd feel good about my chances to cut through any mix. Tonally, I actually like the AE112/AE210 stack the best, but two AE112's stack really nicely and are a breeze to schlep.

agreed,

course, i ended up getting a pair of ht112er's, which i love to pieces.

jokerjkny · #6 10-15-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wengr

Thanks for the reply Tom. I'm currently using one or two Aggie DB112's in a low stage volume let the PA do the work kind of situation. Can't hear them. Sound good by themselve's but seemingly to full range to cut and be heard with the band.

woah,

you cant hear yourself w/ the db cabs???

how are you sitting in relation to them?

wengr · #7 10-15-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokerjkny

woah,

you cant hear yourself w/ the db cabs???

how are you sitting in relation to them?

yeah, at least at the low volume I'm forced to work at, I can barely hear them. I think the guy is a little over the top about excessively low stage volume, but it is what it is. I'm usually imo too close to them, say standing about 4 feet directly in front of them. The amp for what it's worth is a LM II for the moment. I'm thinking the only hope is something a little crisper sounding.

Tunaman · #8 10-15-2010, 06:49 PM

If I ever needed cabs, Bergs would be my 1st look.

tombowlus · #9 10-15-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokerjkny

agreed,

course, i ended up getting a pair of ht112er's, which i love to pieces.

Another rockin' choice!

KJung · #10 10-16-2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wengr

yeah, at least at the low volume I'm forced to work at, I can barely hear them. I think the guy is a little over the top about excessively low stage volume, but it is what it is. I'm usually imo too close to them, say standing about 4 feet directly in front of them. The amp for what it's worth is a LM II for the moment. I'm thinking the only hope is something a little crisper sounding.

A different cab won't solve your problem IMO. The DB's are very mid present, and would not cause any 'hearing issues' themselves. My guess is you have an EQ issue. The softer you get, the more mids you have to punch into your tone (kind of the opposite of what that 'Munson' curve or whatever would suggest with bass amplification). If you are playing soft, it typically means you aren't digging in on your bass, which results in more low end, and the amp/drivers aren't being pushed at all, which means there is little compression down low.

With the LMII, which is a great match for those cabs, make sure the VPF and VLE filters are completely off. Then dial down the bass control (which is perfectly set at a very wide, almost shelving type curve at 40hz to dial out deep low end without robbing your low mid punch) to around 11 o'clock. If you want slightly more upper mid definition, boost the upper mid control to 1 o'clock (800hz... perfect with the DB to make them sound just a touch more like the AE... more upper mid present).

If that doesn't do it, there is another issue (technique possibly... too boomy of a tone coming from the bass, etc.).

You should be able to make this work. That is a warm but punchy and articulate rig. However, it does have a LOT of bottom that needs to be controlled a bit.

IMO, and with that particular rig, IME.

gillento · #11 10-16-2010, 05:24 AM

+ 1 on the db112 /Markbass combination!

wengr · #12 10-17-2010, 07:02 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try Ken's suggested settings for the next gig. I do know that the gear is not the problem, it's more about trying to work around the particular situation of having to try and maintain an unrealistically low stage volume. The bases are for now a modern thunderbird, and a new stingray classic. The stingray is useless here as the d and g are basically inaudible. I'm also thinking of tilting or raising the db112's off the floor.

KJung · #13 10-17-2010, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wengr

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to try Ken's suggested settings for the next gig. I do know that the gear is not the problem, it's more about trying to work around the particular situation of having to try and maintain an unrealistically low stage volume. The bases are for now a modern thunderbird, and a new stingray classic. The stingray is useless here as the d and g are basically inaudible. I'm also thinking of tilting or raising the db112's off the floor.

Cool. Just trying to save you some cash

Your comment about the D and G sounding very weak and thin on your MM suggests that the ratio of low end to low and mid mids is actually the issue, since that is a classic issue with a MM when the bass and treble are boosted on the MM pre... HUGE E string, thin, clickity clackity G string.

Let us know how it goes. Tilting the top cab up a bit on your stack will help also once you make those tone adjustments. I've had success with screwing a spring loaded tilt back handle on the bottom of a 112 for use as a tilt mechanism without having to carry something extra.

wengr · #14 10-25-2010, 08:47 AM

Ok, another gig where I tried the suggestions, and with the TBird was able to manage a small improvement. I think the tilt to the top cab was the biggest help. I wonder if decoupling the bottom cab from the floor as well by tilting or raising would decrease my percieved stage volume to the rest of the band? Anyway while I"m seeing that a cab swap will not help, I'm still thinking about an AE210. A single AE210 on a raised tilted stand. Seems like one 40lb cab might be able to replace two 45lb cabs.

B String · #15 10-25-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wengr

yeah, at least at the low volume I'm forced to work at, I can barely hear them. I think the guy is a little over the top about excessively low stage volume, but it is what it is. I'm usually imo too close to them, say standing about 4 feet directly in front of them. The amp for what it's worth is a LM II for the moment. I'm thinking the only hope is something a little crisper sounding.

As some know,I had a tonal revelation a while back when I tried out Roger Baer's new 12/6 box.

I had issues for years playing many of my boxes at lower volumes. Especially the boxes that worked well when pushed, like the Epifani UL112 or UL210, or boxes that have that "hole" between the top end of the speaker and the horn.
When I tried Roger's box, which is slightly big for a single 12, we found as the volume came down and there was less excursion from the 12, the 6 in mid was still working just fine and the 12 was acting like a sub. I had all this punch and presence at the lower volume, with just about enough lows coming from the 12.

I understand from a weight and cost standpoint it would be tough to make, but it would be interesting to check out a good 12/6/horn type of box.

tombowlus · #16 10-25-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B String

I understand from a weight and cost standpoint it would be tough to make, but it would be interesting to check out a good 12/6/horn type of box.

You mean like a fEarful 12/6/1?

B String · #17 10-25-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

You mean like a fEarful 12/6/1?

Tom!! See?..This is why people don't like you. Its not ok for you to have all the cool gear and step on our dreams of gear ownership. So just give me the the blue Nordy and lets be done with it.
But while we're at it... What's the cost and approximate weight of this animal? How did you like it?

tombowlus · #18 10-25-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B String

Tom!! See?..This is why people don't like you. Its not ok for you to have all the cool gear and step on our dreams of gear ownership. So just give me the the blue Nordy and lets be done with it.
But while we're at it... What's the cost and approximate weight of this animal? How did you like it?

LOL! Sorry!

Regarding the fEarful cab, I am not sure what I have in it so far. It's a DIY build, and I am working on a 15/6/1 and a 12/6/1 at the same time (technically, this is a 12/6cube/1). My father-in-law did all the wood working, and (BGM Technical Editor) Tom Lees put together the crossover and electronics for me. I tried to stay as true as possible to greenboy's plans, and generally went with the higher end options whenever possible. I probably have $500-600 worth of materials in each cab.

B String · #19 10-25-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

LOL! Sorry!

Regarding the fEarful cab, I am not sure what I have in it so far. It's a DIY build, and I am working on a 15/6/1 and a 12/6/1 at the same time (technically, this is a 12/6cube/1). My father-in-law did all the wood working, and (BGM Technical Editor) Tom Lees put together the crossover and electronics for me. I tried to stay as true as possible to greenboy's plans, and generally went with the higher end options whenever possible. I probably have $500-600 worth of materials in each cab.

Any idea of the weight? What kind of tone are we looking at?

tombowlus · #20 10-25-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B String

Any idea of the weight? What kind of tone are we looking at?

These are very light weight. I haven't weighed mine yet, but it's between featherweight and bantam.

Tone-wise, these cabs go DEEP (the Eminence 3012LF, and 3015LF in the 15/6/1, get most of the credit), and they are very even and balanced. The mids can sound a bit more present than you may be used to, but they are smooth (especially with the -6dB pad engaged - you'd only leave it on full blast if you paired this cab up with a "sub", IMHO). The same goes for the high end. Very balanced, not hyped, very smooth. The off-axis dispersion for this cab is very, very good.

There are a couple of mega threads going on the fEarful cabs, if you want to spend a couple of hours reading about these cabs.