Bergantino AE410 = AE112?

[LeonD]

I just did a multi cab comparison of some larger cabs. The one I liked the most was the Bergantino AE410. The reason being it had a very tight low end and pronounced upper mids.

This cab will definitely handle my larger gigs. But now I'm looking for the same type of sound in a smaller cabinet.

Any ideas on what to try? I'm wondering if the Bergantino AE112 has the same type of sound?

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[KJung]

The AE210

[LeonD]

Too heavy. I'd like to keep it around 30 lbs.

How does the 112 differ from the 410 sound wise?

Also, sonically, where would the new AudioKinesis cab fit in?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by LeonD

Too heavy. I'd like to keep it around 30 lbs.

How does the 112 differ from the 410 sound wise?

Also, sonically, where would the new AudioKinesis cab fit in?

You would probably dig the AE112 also. It is a little bigger down low and a little less 'in your face' in the upper mids, similar to many 'within brand family' 10" loaded versus 12" loaded cabs. However, my guess is you would dig it.

The Thunderchild is WAY different.... more even, rounder low end, VERY smooth upper mids and a much less aggressive lower treble/upper treble response. I love that little cab, but it sounds quite a bit different from the AE line of cabs.

I have a bunch of clips of the AE410 and the Thunderchild up on my Youtube channel (in the same rooms with some of the same basses and heads). I have AE212 clips also, but that cab is much bigger and smoother than the AE112. The AE112 kind of sits between the AE410 and AE212, if that makes any sense.

You might also check out the new GK112Neo (not the very low end GK stuff, but the standard Neo112). TBer Vic has a pair of those and also a 2 x AE210 rig, and can probably describe the differences and similarities. PM him if he doesn't show up here.

[LeonD]

Thanks Ken.

I've been playing an Epifani UL410 SI for a couple of years. While I liked the sound, I found I was always turning down the low end. Too much.

For the last week I've been comparing it to an AE410. The Berg suits me much better. More presence and attack without the big bottom.

I do find the Berg harder to move than the Epi. Even though it's only 10 pounds more, it feels a lot heavier. Caster will help.

But I only need a 410 for half my gigs. The other half are either a duo with a singer/guitarist or trio with singer/guitars and keys. The 410 is WAY TOO much. If the AE112 is close sound wise, maybe that's the way to go.

Any other suggestions out there?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by LeonD

Thanks Ken.

I've been playing an Epifani UL410 SI for a couple of years. While I liked the sound, I found I was always turning down the low end. Too much.

For the last week I've been comparing it to an AE410. The Berg suits me much better. More presence and attack without the big bottom.

I do find the Berg harder to move than the Epi. Even though it's only 10 pounds more, it feels a lot heavier. Caster will help.

But I only need a 410 for half my gigs. The other half are either a duo with a singer/guitarist or trio with singer/guitars and keys. The 410 is WAY TOO much. If the AE112 is close sound wise, maybe that's the way to go.

Any other suggestions out there?

I was a LONG time Epi410UL user. Got one of the first S1's off the line about 10 years ago, and eventually also bought one of the newer ones. Beautiful cab, but I too grew to like the punchier, tighter and more even up top AE410. That Epi410UL is voiced beautifully for the 'slap' guys that dial a bunch of 1K out of their sound, since that is kind of built into that cab (along with the bit of low mid hole and big extended bottom).

As you posted, it could sound wonderful, but could get quite boomy and 'undefined' in many rooms. My switching to the F500 with that low mid semi-parametric helped, but I still dig the AE410 more... it just sounds good in every room I use it.

And +1... it feels quite a bit heavier for some reason than the weight spec, even though the weight spec is accurate... maybe due to its smaller size. I have the plate removable 2" castors on mine, and it works well. GREAT cab.

Interestingly, I find my recently puchased AE212 to sit nicely between the AE410 and the UL410... bigger low end and smoother upper mids than the AE410, but much more even and punchy down low than the UL410, and more going on in the upper mids also. GREAT cab!

I've had my 410UL(4ohm) for sale for a while at Gravity Strings in St. Louis for a low price, in perfect shape with cover and castors, and it is just sitting there. Amazing how Epi is no longer 'the thing'.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by KJung

You might also check out the new GK112Neo (not the very low end GK stuff, but the standard Neo112). TBer Vic has a pair of those and also a 2 x AE210 rig, and can probably describe the differences and similarities. PM him if he doesn't show up here.

I'll check it out and get back.

[rodl2005]

I've an AE112 & an AE212 & I like the 112 better. The 212 is great, but I just like the simple round present tone of the 112.

I do similar gigs by the sounds... & the AE112 def handles a good amount of power- far better than many 112's I've tried.
I've not tried the GK range tho.
For a single 12" the AE112 does a great job. Fills the room without PA support at our jazz/blues gig(drums, mini-grand piano bass & voc's. Sometime with a guitarist too).
The ONLY cab/combo I've liked as much is the Mesa Walkabout Scout 12". Which is a little more 'old school sounding, but one CAN dial IN that tone with the AE112 anyway.

[LeonD]

Thanks for all the info guys.

What prompted all this in addition to liking the AE410 in my shootout today, was that there was an AE112 on ebay ending tonight. I ended up winning that cab so I should have it here sometime this coming week.

Looks like I'm turning into a Bergantino fanboy. Well, I live one town over from Jim so at least I'm supporting a local business.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by LeonD

Thanks for all the info guys.

What prompted all this in addition to liking the AE410 in my shootout today, was that there was an AE112 on ebay ending tonight. I ended up winning that cab so I should have it here sometime this coming week.

Looks like I'm turning into a Bergantino fanboy. Well, I live one town over from Jim so at least I'm supporting a local business.

You should like the AE112. It has a bit more solid and even midrange than the AE210, and while not as upper-mid aggressive as the AE410, it has enough brand similarity that I think you'll like it a lot.

The AE112 is one of the most impressive small cab solutions I have heard. It's right up there with my 12/6cube fEarful, and my guess is the ThunderChild is going to be in the running as well. That being said, the GK Neo112-II is not far at all off the pace, and comes in at a phenomenal price point.

Tom.

[Vic]

Berg AE210 x 2 VS GK Neo112-II x 2...

WAY WAY different sounding. First, there's both a lot more high and low end extension in the GKs. Not scooped sounding like the Aggie GS cabs, just much bigger. They are actually perceivably louder at the same input level vs the AE210 cabs. Also, the AE210 cabs have a bit more emphasis around 500Hz than the GKs. The GKs are much more even sounding through the mids.

So basically, the AE210 cabs are LOTS tighter sounding, and maybe just a tad quicker, with not as much going on in the lower and higher registers. I've always said the AE's were the tightest sounding cabs I've ever owned and this is a good example. This makes them really effective (as I've also said many times) in places where acoustics suck and you have a "boom and gloom" problem. However, noting I've typically been a fan of the bigger and brighter stuff in the past (I've been an Epi fanboi for a while now), I do prefer the GKs.

I've also played a pair of the AE112s, and had I known what I know now, I probably would've selected those over the AE210s, because they also had a little bit more going on in the low end, yet without sacrificing the high end, and as Tom says, the upper mids (you can especially tell this at a gig.)

I haven't A/B'd the AE410 vs the AE210s, but from what I understand, the low end in the AE410 is a bit bigger than the pair of AE210's. However, I still imagine the 112s and especially the 212 would even have more. I think I'd like that.

So now I need to hear the AE212. A local guy has one I can borrow, but at this point, I fear that cab.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

Berg AE210 x 2 VS GK Neo112-II x 2...

WAY WAY different sounding. First, there's both a lot more high and low end extension in the GKs. Not scooped sounding like the Aggie GS cabs, just much bigger. They are actually perceivably louder at the same input level vs the AE210 cabs. Also, the AE210 cabs have a bit more emphasis around 500Hz than the GKs. The GKs are much more even sounding through the mids.

So basically, the AE210 cabs are LOTS tighter sounding, and maybe just a tad quicker, with not as much going on in the lower and higher registers. I've always said the AE's were the tightest sounding cabs I've ever owned and this is a good example. This makes them really effective (as I've also said many times) in places where acoustics suck and you have a "boom and gloom" problem. However, noting I've typically been a fan of the bigger and brighter stuff in the past (I've been an Epi fanboi for a while now), I do prefer the GKs.

I've also played a pair of the AE112s, and had I known what I know now, I probably would've selected those over the AE210s, because they also had a little bit more going on in the low end, yet without sacrificing the high end, and as Tom says, the upper mids (you can especially tell this at a gig.)

I haven't A/B'd the AE410 vs the AE210s, but from what I understand, the low end in the AE410 is a bit bigger than the pair of AE210's. However, I still imagine the 112s and especially the 212 would even have more. I think I'd like that.

So now I need to hear the AE212. A local guy has one I can borrow, but at this point, I fear that cab.

Cool. Sounds like the OP has made the right choice with the AE112. That GK voicing does not really sound like my thing, and quite a bit different from the AE112. Cool! Thanks!

[Vic]

Originally Posted by KJung

Cool. Sounds like the OP has made the right choice with the AE112. That GK voicing does not really sound like my thing, and quite a bit different from the AE112. Cool! Thanks!

Keep in mind I think the AE 12's will sound bigger in the lows than the 10's, so while I'm sure they're different, it's probably not gonna' be like in my comparison with the 10's.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

Keep in mind I think the AE 12's will sound bigger in the lows than the 10's, so while I'm sure they're different, it's probably not gonna' be like in my comparison with the 10's.

Shouldn't really be a problem for the OP. I have an AE212/AE410 comparison clip up that demonstrates how a bit of low mid bump at 250 and a bit of upper mid boost around 1K can move the AE212 (much less the 'not as big' sounding AE112) relatively close to the AE410.

They are definitely all in the same family. It is also amazing how nicely you can widen out and smooth the AE410 with a bit of bass boost, a bit of low mid cut around 200hz, and a bit of upper mid cut around 1K or a touch higher. The AE410 drivers pretty much take what you give them!

[LeonD]

The AE112 came yesterday and had a chance to try it in my music room.

The other 112s I've had experience with are the Genz Benz Neo 112, EA Wizzy and the Epifani UL112 S1.

The Wizzy does what it does very well but I'm not into that sound anymore. I played the Epifani for years. Good tone and easy to transport but I traded it to try the Genz. The Genz was too deep for me; too much going on low. Although, I could see where this cab would be favorite for a lot of people. Real deep.

For me, the AE112 is a home run! Very tight bottom and nice high mids. I thought it behaved very well to eq changes. To answer my original question, I feel it's definitely in the same family as the AE410. While not quite exact. They both give the same vibe.

One thing I noticed about the AE410 was that it had a certain "depth" the the AE112 didn't. I didn't really hear the difference as a frequency thing but more like a 3D quality. Not sure if this makes sense or not.

So now I'm on the fence about keeping the setup that I have or going to two AE112's. The two AE112's would be MUCH easier for me to move in and out of the house (narrow stairway to navigate) but the AE410 has that depth that I mentioned above. Plus, I do like using only one cab on a gig. I'll take some time to make this decision. My first gig with the AE410 will be this Saturday and the first gig with the AE112 will be the following Saturday. I'll see what I think after that.

Thanks to all who helped with my decision.

[LeonD]

One other thing I noticed about the Berg's are how nice the tweeter is. On other cabs, turn the tweeter up too much and it's like an ice pick in the ear.

These cabs just keep getting sweeter and sweeter. And both cabs really change in feel depending on if the tweeter is off, on half way or full on.

And all three setting are musical and usable.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by LeonD

The AE112 came yesterday and had a chance to try it in my music room.

The other 112s I've had experience with are the Genz Benz Neo 112, EA Wizzy and the Epifani UL112 S1.

The Wizzy does what it does very well but I'm not into that sound anymore. I played the Epifani for years. Good tone and easy to transport but I traded it to try the Genz. The Genz was too deep for me; too much going on low. Although, I could see where this cab would be favorite for a lot of people. Real deep.

For me, the AE112 is a home run! Very tight bottom and nice high mids. I thought it behaved very well to eq changes. To answer my original question, I feel it's definitely in the same family as the AE410. While not quite exact. They both give the same vibe.

One thing I noticed about the AE410 was that it had a certain "depth" the the AE112 didn't. I didn't really hear the difference as a frequency thing but more like a 3D quality. Not sure if this makes sense or not.

So now I'm on the fence about keeping the setup that I have or going to two AE112's. The two AE112's would be MUCH easier for me to move in and out of the house (narrow stairway to navigate) but the AE410 has that depth that I mentioned above. Plus, I do like using only one cab on a gig. I'll take some time to make this decision. My first gig with the AE410 will be this Saturday and the first gig with the AE112 will be the following Saturday. I'll see what I think after that.

Thanks to all who helped with my decision.

Cool! Wonderful boxes. I think the 'depth' difference is more just a matter of power and box size. With 2 AE112's, you will get more low end, more push, more volume, bigger tone, and about 75% of the output of the AE410.

The AE212 is, but all accounts, even bigger and smoother sounding than two AE112's. Since you like that strong dose of upper mids, my guess is, unless you are pushing the AE410 to its limits on your gigs, 2 x AE112's should work nicely. I am one who finds a single large cabinet less of a hassle than two small ones, but that is just me!

Hard to go wrong with any of the AE's IMO!

[LeonD]

One more question. I thinking of putting casters on the 410 to help moving. I usually use a Gamma pad to decouple the cab from the floor.

If I leave the casters on the cab, will I still need the Gamma? Or should I take the casters off and use the Gamma?

[KJung]

No need for the Gramma if you have castors. The Gramma will perform a smidge better in the worst of hollow stage situations, but you wouldn't notice it in a mix. I always leave the castors on my AE410. I have the plate removable castors (Jim sells them). Really easy to install (4 wood screws for each... takes less than 5 minutes with an electric screw driver). I will say the cab is a bit heavy for the little 2" castors, but they work well for me on even surfaces.

On my older version, with no black metal corner protectors, the plates fit beautifully to the outside of the rubber feet. If you have a cab with corner protectors, my guess is you will have to move or remove the rubber feet to place them correctly.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by LeonD

So now I'm on the fence about keeping the setup that I have or going to two AE112's. The two AE112's would be MUCH easier for me to move in and out of the house (narrow stairway to navigate) but the AE410 has that depth that I mentioned above. Plus, I do like using only one cab on a gig. I'll take some time to make this decision. My first gig with the AE410 will be this Saturday and the first gig with the AE112 will be the following Saturday. I'll see what I think after that.

Thanks to all who helped with my decision.

Two AE112's work very, very well as a modular rig option, IME/IMHO. You can do a surprising amount with just one cab, and with two, there aren't many situations you could not handle.

And +1 to the Berg tweeters/crossover. This is where Jim really excels, IME/IMHO.