Bergantino vs Schroeder Cabs

[Gintaras]

Just read this whole post. I have a 15L built on a 1212L box. (Jorg built a few custom models and I bought one from a TB member).
I wanted to add another cab and was thinking about a 2x10. I wonder if I should add a Berg AE210? Not sure about how they would mix?

[kringle77]

Reviving old thread. What ever happened to the vertical 2x12 cabs?

[kringle77]

I put in an order for a 1000 watt 8 ohm 212pl cab. Im hoping to get close to the eden d210xlt sound with it, only lighter. My goal is to find very light cabs that can do the very low mid punchy, growly midrange tone that cuts through a live rock band sound. Got a pair of hathor cabs being built too. This schroeder is going to be kind of a wild card for me. I've always wanted to try one. So far I've only gotten the sound I like out of 10's but, these schroeders seem to be very low mid boosted so, that may get me the same sound with 12's. We'll see.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Subscribed. Curious to see what you think. I went thru a fair number of Schroeders but found the lack of pillow and heavy mid bump to not be my thing.

[dukeorock]

Sub'd...Obviously, I have different preferences, but between the two, I've liked most Bergs I've heard...Schros? I like bass in my bass

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by shrigg

I'm happy with my 1212BMF....

Update: That Schroeder got sold, way too midrangey for my taste. It was replaced by a Berg HT112/EX112 setup which was nice but the Thunderchild 115 won out over everything else.

[::::BASSIST::::]

The thing about schros is that they dont take eq that well. Personally, I find it easier/better to dial out low-end then dial it in.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

The thing about schros is that they dont take eq that well. Personally, I find it easier/better to dial out low-end then dial it in.

I can't reply about earlier Schro's but i've been able to get a big bottom end with the Neo 212PL and Neo 15PL. Together, it's a mean rig. I've ran them both or soloed with these heads.. great results with both cabs.

800Rb + Sansamp
Sunn Coliseum 300
Aggie TH500

Maybe people weren't happy with the tone right out of the box? The cabs i have did honestly take a few gigs to really "warm" up, just as Jorg said they would. BTW my comments are purely based on the Neo PL series.

I did try a Berg 212 while i tested my TH500, i liked the sound.... wasn't really my thing though. I have not had enough experience with Bergs to really compare the 2 cabs, just so that is noted..

[kringle77]

The ae212 was nice but, TOO pillowing on the bottom and not enough low mid punch, even with my sm9.2. I'll just have to wait and find out I guess.

[lomo]

Originally Posted by ::::BASSIST::::

The thing about schros is that they dont take eq that well. Personally, I find it easier/better to dial out low-end then dial it in.

+1

I never found anything at all smooth or low or supportive with Schros, and I owned a few 'cause the weights are so low I kept wanting to like them(older 1212L, 15L, BMF 215). They did, however, cut like scimitars. None of them had any meaningful content below about 150Hz......at all. A couple of them also had significant build shortcomings.

[kringle77]

Yeah, I've read all of that and believe it. I don't think that I will have as much of an issue with lack of true low end since I currently use an nv610 and love the eden xlt 2x10 cabs. That being said, I may not love the tone of this cab when it arrives. Either way, I just want to see what these things are about. I could probably see myself adding lining to the cab if the sound is close to what I want out of the box. I want a cutting tone and don't dig lots of low end. The hathors will probably do it for me. I have the bass, amp, od, etc that I want and have no desire to change them but, Im still on the hunt for the right cab. The magic ratio between weight, tone and volume.

Now a gripe. When some of you guys are demonstrating gear, could you PLEASE stop the slappity stuff. You can't actually tell what the gear sounds like and that stuff gets old after about 30 seconds. And really, how many of us are doing that for an entire gig? 98% of the schroeder stuff I've heard is slap and the rest is pretty much percussive finger style using the back J pup and rattling fret noise. These cabs can't actually sound like that. ????? Can they. This goes for most gear really. How many videos out there are a bunch of percussive sounds with very few actual notes? I mean, really. You can see the guys hands moving all over the place but can you actually hear many notes? You can get the same effect without even moving your fret hand around. Kjung and Johnk are some of the few guys who make samples worth listening to. Real world playing where you can actually tell what something sounds like. I would love to make samples like that as, I usually have some gear that some players would like to hear but, I have no way of recording good samples. I thought my new galaxy S3 would do it but, nope.

[ookiedukes]

I have had both, Bergantino wins across the board.
Schroeder has a loud mid honky sound that gets old quick.

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by kringle77

I want a cutting tone and don't dig lots of low end. The hathors will probably do it for me. I have the bass, amp, od, etc that I want and have no desire to change them but, Im still on the hunt for the right cab. The magic ratio between weight, tone and volume.

Those cabs are pretty much opposites, no lows with the Schro to fat pillowy lows with the Hathor. As mentioned earlier, it's easier to remove bass than add it so I think the Hathors will be that magic bullet for you. You could try an Aguilar TH500 with them if you want a more mid forward sound.

[kringle77]

Oh, you have actually played a Hathor? Cool. Can you compare them to anything else? Do you find the schroeders to sound a bit like the eden xlt series?

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by kringle77

Oh, you have actually played a Hathor? Cool. Can you compare them to anything else? Do you find the schroeders to sound a bit like the eden xlt series?

Actually I haven't played the Hathor... I am basing my opinion on my Thunderchild 115 which has absolutely huge low end. On the Audiokinesis thread the Hathor beta testers have said that it has slightly less low end than the TC115 with a more overdrive friendly upper end.

[bassdude51]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

I am in the process (meaning I have both but am trying to decide what I can get from them) of switching my "big rig" over from a Berg NV610 driven by a TE Hexavalve to 2- 1212BMF's driven by a GB SM12. Also, I have acquired 2 Schroeder 15L's, and have a GB Shuttle 6 for driving any one of the Schroeders for normal gig situations.

Here are some thoughts FWIW.

The Berg cabs are solid, beautifully designed, and sound magnificent. That is a great company with great products. The NV610 has one of the all time great sounds for the bass guitar.

The Schroeders are well made and well designed; but don't feel quite so solid as the Bergs. OTOH, they are unbelievably light for the power and SPL that they can produce. As previously posted, they have somewhat of a lack of low end pillow, and even tend to sound a little honky on their own with some basses; more true with Fender J style instruments, less so with Bartolini equipped instruments. However, in the mix, this sound really works well. The 1212BMF is more even than the compact or 15 L cabs, and does have more low end response, but it still favors an upper mid character. Boosting the 120 Hz area with a parametric seems to help.

Two pretty different flavors of cab, as a generalization; both with their merits. I would say the Berg excels for outstanding craftsmanship and balanced tone. The Schroeder excels for portability, relative sound pressure, and cut in the mix. You would kind of need to work with both in some working situations to decide what is best for you.

All IMO/IME.

Hope that helps.

Bucephylus has given the best evaluation of the sound differences between Bergs and Schroeders.

Adding in my .02 cents.

In my opinion, your decision based on your Am St J Bass, finger style picking and modest size gigs..........is a matter of quality vs quantity. Which do you want?

The Schroders are gonna be louder. The Bergs are gonna be loud enough but better sounding! Discussion over!

As for the extra 100 British Pounds for the Bergs, it's better to over spend than to under spend for just about anything in life, including bass equipment.

I have a NV215 and have also heard several 2-10s and 4-10s Bergs cabs. With all of my heart, I love my NV215 and there's just nothing else that could sound better for me! I also was very, very impressed with Berg's 10 inch cabs and they can really pull off rich bass end with the added more modern bass type sound.

Bergs are such quality! Very balanced sound from lows to highs.

A friend of mine had a Schroder 12 inch cab (don't remember the model) and I was not impressed at all with it's sound. Too much mid range for me!

From reading the Schroder website, the focus on their bass cabs seems to be about volume.

Bergs are about full range, balanced sound with quality being the focus. So, they have an excellent quality sound.

Mr. Bergantino is a very nice fellow and you can talk directly to him. Wonderful customer service! His cabs rank at the top of the bass cab chain.

Quality or quantity? IMHO Let your ears be your guide. Go to youtube and listen to sound clips and videos of the 2 brands of cabs.

You are able to hear the Bergs in person at the store where you live but the Schroeders are like a "blind date" since you can't try them out.

Don't buy without trying!

Good luck and let us know what you bought.

[bassdude51]

Originally Posted by dukeorock

Sub'd...Obviously, I have different preferences, but between the two, I've liked most Bergs I've heard...Schros? I like bass in my bass

+1,000,000!!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha............."I like bass in my bass." Ain't it the truth!!!!!!!

[brotherbassj]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

I am in the process (meaning I have both but am trying to decide what I can get from them) of switching my "big rig" over from a Berg NV610 driven by a TE Hexavalve to 2- 1212BMF's driven by a GB SM12. Also, I have acquired 2 Schroeder 15L's, and have a GB Shuttle 6 for driving any one of the Schroeders for normal gig situations.

Here are some thoughts FWIW.

The Berg cabs are solid, beautifully designed, and sound magnificent. That is a great company with great products. The NV610 has one of the all time great sounds for the bass guitar.

The Schroeders are well made and well designed; but don't feel quite so solid as the Bergs. OTOH, they are unbelievably light for the power and SPL that they can produce. As previously posted, they have somewhat of a lack of low end pillow, and even tend to sound a little honky on their own with some basses; more true with Fender J style instruments, less so with Bartolini equipped instruments. However, in the mix, this sound really works well. The 1212BMF is more even than the compact or 15 L cabs, and does have more low end response, but it still favors an upper mid character. Boosting the 120 Hz area with a parametric seems to help.

Two pretty different flavors of cab, as a generalization; both with their merits. I would say the Berg excels for outstanding craftsmanship and balanced tone. The Schroeder excels for portability, relative sound pressure, and cut in the mix. You would kind of need to work with both in some working situations to decide what is best for you.

All IMO/IME.

Hope that helps.

This is a good description

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 I have a 115L+ for smaller gigs, and the wonderful AE410 for larger ones. Both are great, both very punchy and articulate. I give the nod to Jim B. for top notch construction and a bit more even voicing, and the nod to Jorg for stupid lightweight and massive SPL from a small box that still provides usable low end.

Both are great IMO and IME, and like any other line of cabs, I have favorites and 'dislikes' within each brand.

I agree with Ken

Originally Posted by jdwinva

In my experience comparing Bergantino to Schroder is like asking to compare a brand new Mazarati with a 74 VW Bug. The Bergantino is king. I've owned both. Yes Schro is loud as hell but sounds like nails on a chalkboard compared to a Bergie.

I disagree with this comparison. I have had both brand cabs. My perfect rig was a bergantion nv215 coupled with a schroeder BMF412. Pure tonal bliss together.

Originally Posted by KJung

IMO and IME, yes. Still tight and a bit restricted down low, buy MUCH more even than the baffle models. Wonderful cabs if you like it tight, bright, and punchy.

Originally Posted by bassdude51

+1,000,000!!!!!

ha ha ha ha ha............."I like bass in my bass." Ain't it the truth!!!!!!!

The bergantinos tend to sound like they have more bass yes.

Two thinks to keep in mind...if you play in a bedroom or by yourself the bergs will sound great and better than the schroeders. If you play on stage you will definitely cut through the mix. If you have PA support and are playing big venues, your tone will be shaped by FOH sound guy.........so pick what you like. I still have the schroeder bmf412 and the berg nv215. I like them both for different reasons.

Last thought. I am not expert on sound and how the ear hears it. Both cabs supposedly reproduce the same frequencies, maybe when you ad the mid voicing of the cab in it confuses your ears? My guitarist loves my Berg because he feels it. He gets annoyed with the schroeder because he hears what I play.......lol

Hope all this makes sense and maybe helps a little!

[bucephylus]

Just to add a little bit to where I went over the past 2 years with this.

The NV610 sadly had to be sold. I just didn't have the footprint to keep it around. Great cab, though.

I also moved the 1212BMF cabs. They just did not have the sound I wanted, particularly with two of them running together. Too much sterile/harshness going on.

I kept a pair of Schro 15+L's. I still dig those cabs for their portability and sound. Couple things I learned with them. One alone sounds absolutely fabulous with my upright. Plenty of bass and very growly. Also, 2 of them stacked have way more bass pillow than a single one alone. In fact, the low end pillow can get a little loose and overbearing; so, I have to actually keep it in check when I use them. I know this is not the result cats have had with the single cab; but recorded videos have confirmed this for me.

I replaced the NV610 with an AE212. That cab is absolutely pinpoint perfect for the sound I try to get. I recently added an HD112 to pair for bigger gigs, or alone for smaller jobs.

I'm playing out of two different locations; so, the Schro's are at one location and the Bergs at the other. I'm pretty much set now; but, still miss that danged NV610.

[kringle77]

Im so surprised that you like botht he ae212 and nv610. I bought the 2x12 in hopes of replacing the nv610 and it just wasn't happening. Too much low end, not enough midrange character. The fact that the schroeders are voiced with more mids and that the 212pl is supposed to have a fatter bottom than some of their other cabs, Im thinking that it could actually work for me.

As a reference, I thought that hs210 had an annoying honk around 800hz, the ht210 was too modern, the nv412 was the best overall but I really missed the compressed feel of the nv610 so, thats what I stuck with. I probably should have just kept the nv412 and had lds build me a pair of sealed 2x12 cabs to use the drivers in. That may have worked well to get an awsome 412 vertical stack. Oh well.