Best 15" BG speaker ?

[Greg_M]

Ok I know this is the proverbial can of worms.....

I have not played in decades. When I did, I used JBL D130s and 140s and Altec 421s.

So what is out there now that rivals those speakers?

(Probably won't play as loud as I used to either)

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Greg_M

JBL D130s and 140s and Altec 421s.

So what is out there now that rivals those speakers?

On the one hand, nothing, as they all had very high sensitivity, and the Altecs also had very extended highs. OTOH that high sensitivity was obtained at the cost of low frequency extension and output, and in that department none of them are competitive with a number of modern drivers.

[Greg_M]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

On the one hand, nothing, as they all had very high sensitivity, and the Altecs also had very extended highs. OTOH that high sensitivity was obtained at the cost of low frequency extension and output, and in that department none of them are competitive with a number of modern drivers.

Such as......?

[BurningSkies]

www.eminence.com/pdf/kappalite-3015lf.pdf

[Greg_M]

Interesting

[anonymous02282011]

http://www.usspeaker.com/EVX%20155-1.htm

In the right box with the proper tuning, of course . . .

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by adbass

http://www.usspeaker.com/EVX%20155-1.htm

In the right box with the proper tuning, of course . . .

The EVX is just as obsolete as the E140. Weighs a ton, and doesn't go low. And while the power specs are impressive it's easily beaten in LF output by the 3015LF that weighs and costs half as much. The DVX3150 might be interesting, but EV won't sell you one, just like JBL sells the 2226 but not the 2265. They both keep their best for themselves.

[bigboote]

i think you're gonna have to find an old 421. one of the best speakers, ever. nothing i've heard comes close. wish i had mine back, too.

[D.M.N.]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

On the one hand, nothing, as they all had very high sensitivity, and the Altecs also had very extended highs. OTOH that high sensitivity was obtained at the cost of low frequency extension and output, and in that department none of them are competitive with a number of modern drivers.

I think it really depends on what sound you're going for. As Bill mentions here, they all had high sensitivity, but couldn't go nearly as low as many of the current production drivers. If you're going for a sound more inline with the 60s and 70s tone, then I'd say, IMHO, the K&E140s still rule. If you're going for a more modern sound, with S**t-tons of bass rattling fillings out of some poor guy 5 block away, look at the Kappalites. You also have to look at your enclosures too.

Like I said though, I believe the K140, or their high powered successor the E140, is still an excellent 15", definitely my favorite as far as tone vs. volume vs. bass output.

(BTW, Bill know WAY more than me, I'm just basing on personal experience and what I hear, he has oodles more info about the technical stuff)

[Bassmec]

I am a big supporter of the old JBL 140 sound I know just where to stick the old neumann to get a holocaust of a bass guitar tone.
The Altec 421 is even more forward in the upper mid and the Alnico Magnet Altec 418 series 11 is so good in that too.
Muddy is all you seem to be left with once you eq out the goose honk mid peak of an eminence 3015.
But then I am not a big supporter of bass guitar sound with the sort of infra-sound that you cant hear even in the studio monitors but it just pumps down the Neve buss compressor if you try to play it at any level at all in the mix.
Sheeh how much fundamental do you guys need before you end up making a very wobbly punch free mix.
With the sound of most of todays fifteens no wonder people like tens for bass guitar.

[Greg_M]

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

If you're going for a more modern sound, with S**t-tons of bass rattling fillings out of some poor guy 5 block away,

It sounds very strange to hear myself say this, but I will be 60 shortly and I think my gut homogenizing days have gone.
If anything I probably will be playing jazz or maybe even some country music although I have never been a fan of that. Maybe some nice Sergio Mendes. Maybe I can get the old high school band back together. (not)

I do have a black face Super Reverb, maybe I could just use that?

[megadan]

I'm a fan of the 3015, as are some others here I believe.

[anonymous02282011]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The EVX is just as obsolete as the E140. Weighs a ton, and doesn't go low. And while the power specs are impressive it's easily beaten in LF output by the 3015LF that weighs and costs half as much. The DVX3150 might be interesting, but EV won't sell you one, just like JBL sells the 2226 but not the 2265. They both keep their best for themselves.

Interesting.

I've never heard the 3015LF, but I know it receives a lot of praise here on TB. Aaccording to the specs for each, the EVX will go to 30Hz and the Emminence will go to 40Hz.

Also, I've never heard a NEO speaker that I liked. Again, I've never heard the 3015LF.

Perhaps it's time for a new build!

I'm not disputing you Bill, I'm just here to learn.

[D.M.N.]

Originally Posted by Greg_M

It sounds very strange to hear myself say this, but I will be 60 shortly and I think my gut homogenizing days have gone.
If anything I probably will be playing jazz or maybe even some country music although I have never been a fan of that. Maybe some nice Sergio Mendes. Maybe I can get the old high school band back together. (not)

I do have a black face Super Reverb, maybe I could just use that?

I believe the old Super Reverb probably came with a JBL 140 of one series or another, probably either a D or K. Since you're not going for gut busting lows, I'd suggest looking into the K or E series 140s. Pretty smooth, as far as my ears can tell, pretty flat response, nice tight bass, with clear (maybe not super clear or defined, but definitely ample) highs. They're pretty pricey, but there's a reason for that.

Regarding the 3015LF: isn't that only a Low Frequency driver? Don't you need a crossover or something of the sort, and pair it with mid- or high- drivers? I could be wrong, I thought that's what I heard.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

Regarding the 3015LF: isn't that only a Low Frequency driver? Don't you need a crossover or something of the sort, and pair it with mid- or high- drivers? I could be wrong, I thought that's what I heard.

All fifteens are low frequency drivers. Some go pretty high on-axis, but that's only of benefit if your listening position is on-axis. The reason for using midrange drivers above 1kHz or so isn't upward extension of frequency response, it's the expansion of the usable midrange dispersion.

[Pilgrim]

Greg, here's a different thought from someone who just turned 60 and isn't thrilled about moving 15" cabs around.

Last winter I played a gig at a music store and they let me use a Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 head with a 12T speaker:



This amp weighs 3.75 pounds and docks on the 12" speaker - which weighs 32 pounds. The amp puts out 375W into that single 8 ohm speaker. Together, they weigh just under 37 pounds.

Now, I've played mostly through 15's or 4x10 speakers, and I don't play extremely loud...but I do play surf and classic rock moderately loud. This Genz-Benz combo flat blew me away. It gets deep, it can sound as clean as you want, it has a tube preamp that can be dialed up to get a tube sound...it's a great package. I have parked my Sunn Coliseum-300 amp and sold all my big, heavy speakers. I just don't need them, and I darn sure don't want to hump them around.

After playing at the music store, my whole band was impressed by this combo. I walked off the stage and told my wife "I know what I want for Christmas!"

We bought a pair of the 12T speakers along with the amp, but frankly, I've never needed to use the second speaker. Just one has been everything I've needed at the few gigs I've played. If I play outside I'll probably need the second one, but anything indoors has been easy to do with one.

It is NOT cheap - so I recommend buying used if possible. But I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't hunt up a Gena-Benz dealer and give this combination a try.

[Greg_M]

Thanks Pilgrim
(Do I sound like John Wayne?)
It looks like something I was thinking of. Another version of that is an Ampeg B15, which an organ player that was in one of the bands I was in played his Faresa organ through (remember those?)
I didn't think to much of it at the time, but now it sounds like it would be just right. Thanks for the tip

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

I believe the old Super Reverb probably came with a JBL 140 of one series or another, probably either a D or K. Since you're not going for gut busting lows,

The Super I have has four 10" Fender speakers.
I was just getting ready to recap it and change out a couple of pots that are froze up. It weighs a ton

Greg

[D.M.N.]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

All fifteens are low frequency drivers. Some go pretty high on-axis, but that's only of benefit if your listening position is on-axis. The reason for using midrange drivers above 1kHz or so isn't upward extension of frequency response, it's the expansion of the usable midrange dispersion.

Ah, okay. So what's the difference between the 3015 and 3015LF? Does the 3015 have a "wider" range, whereas the LF concentrates more on the lower frequency? I really have no idea, but for some reason I though the LF was more of a PA-sub woofer, and the 3015 was more geared towards a standalone MI speaker?

[JimmyM]

the 3015 is more for single speaker or speaker + tweeter applications, more of a "full-range" speaker, while the 3015LF must be crossed over to a mid driver to get the best out of it.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Greg_M

Thanks Pilgrim
(Do I sound like John Wayne?)
It looks like something I was thinking of. Another version of that is an Ampeg B15, which an organ player that was in one of the bands I was in played his Faresa organ through (remember those?)
I didn't think to much of it at the time, but now it sounds like it would be just right. Thanks for the tip

Greg

You sound jes' right. And the B15 has a lot of fans, but isn't an especially powerful amp by today's standards - which are a heap different than when you and I broke in. I still have my 50W blackface Bassman at home, but it's no longer for gigs.

Here's another amp to look at - I haven't used this one but the reviews are good and it's a 2x12 with 500W and weighs only 37 pounds. Incredible. And if GC carries it you can probably test drive one.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gallien-...53-i1474943.gc