Best Amp Head for Mowtown?

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

It was THIS.

Thank You, I somehow missed that thread.

Regrds
Sam

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by Troph

Honestly, all of the old Motown stuff was recorded to tape via a custom tube DI system, some kind of Fairchild limiter, and a custom mixing console. So nothing on the market today can claim to be "authentic" in yielding those recorded sounds. Everything that claims to is just subjective opinion.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, I think you can make just about any amp with a "tubey" preamp and a nice EQ sound darn close to the Motown recordings. Especially if you feed it a Pbass with flats.

For example, I can get a great old-school thump with my budget Carvin BX500 and a single GK 115 cab if I dial it in. I didn't buy that rig to get that sound, but it's in there.

Also, I found that little technique details are also crucial to keep the sound you're after. For instance, I clip my RH fingernails extra close to avoid any hard finger-style attack, especially if I'm going to be playing any old-school R&B or walking jazz style stuff. (And if I have to switch genres in the same performance, then I'll resort to popping and plucking for attack...)

This is all golden advice. And +1 to the "motown sound" being basically the studio equipment with a bass plugged in. Your bang for the buck was in the last paragraph; the rest is icing on the cake.

[arai]

Don't dig in to hard, a P bass with flat wound strings and...

Originally Posted by Hobobob

Put some sponge or foam under the strings at the bridge, then use whatever amp you want.

..as long as the amp is not too mid scooped

[lowphatbass]

It doesn't always have to be an Ampeg but it helps that there's tubes and 15's.
http://r5---sn-jvhj5nu-a5ml.c.youtub...s_redirect=yes

[spacebassed]

Anytime Jamerson or the Motown sound comes up someone mentions the Ampeg B15, then someone invariably chimes in saying "NO! Jamerson didn't use a B15, he only used the custom tube DI built for Studio A" - it's been discussed ad nauseum. The truth is he used both. While it's true that most of the recordings were done with the tube DI, on the early Motown stuff Jamerson did use a B15. He also used one outside of the studio quite a bit.

This thread is about how the OP could get a tone similar to the Motown sound. You can't deny that a B15 nails that sound (Stax used a B15 too). I supposed he could go to the snakepit under cover of night and try to make it home with the custom tube DI that Jamerson used... or he could just spend $1k and buy a B15 - which do you think would be easier.



...and if you're set on using the Genz Benz cab (you didn't mention the speaker configuration) there are several options. Tubes and 15's are a good place to start. There are several old Ampeg heads that would get you in the ballpark, but IMHO nothing sounds quite as good as the B15 with its 6sl7's, the SVT/V4b get close, but are a little more aggressive sounding to me. The Catalinbread SFT pedal would also be something to look into.

[spacebassed]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Toro. Or maybe Briggs and Stratton.

Oh, Motown. I thought we were talking gardening...never mind

May I suggest Mr. Dave's Lawncare Tips, Tricks, and Tobacco Dips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wSssw0-W74

[B'Boom]

The De-Monique + Barefaced cab is also a very good choice. Maybe that the total sum exceeds $2000 in U.S.

[Ron G]

Two books you should get: The R&B Bass Masters by Ed Friedland and Standing In The Shadows of Motown (The life and music of legendary bassist James Jamerson) by Dr. Licks

They both state the following - Jamerson used an Ampeg B-15 "flip-top" amplifier with its built-in single 15" speaker. For larger rooms, he had a Kustom amp with two 15" speakers, the cabinet covered in Kustom's signature tuck-and roll vinyl padding in blue sparkle. He turned the amp's bass control all the way up and the treble on half.

His Fender bass was always set with the volume and tone controls all the way up.

[Jerry Ziarko]

Originally Posted by Ron G

Two books you should get: The R&B Bass Masters by Ed Friedland and Standing In The Shadows of Motown (The life and music of legendary bassist James Jamerson) by Dr. Licks

They both state the following - Jamerson used an Ampeg B-15 "flip-top" amplifier with its built-in single 15" speaker. For larger rooms, he had a Kustom amp with two 15" speakers, the cabinet covered in Kustom's signature tuck-and roll vinyl padding in blue sparkle. He turned the amp's bass control all the way up and the treble on half.

His Fender bass was always set with the volume and tone controls all the way up.

They both state it, but most of the time he was recorded direct.

[Stev187]

Originally Posted by Ron G

Two books you should get: The R&B Bass Masters by Ed Friedland and Standing In The Shadows of Motown (The life and music of legendary bassist James Jamerson) by Dr. Licks.

I can't say enough about these books. Ed goes into great detail about the equipment and settings he used to try and nail the tone for the fantastic players in the book.

I also agree with previous posters about the physical approach to the bass being more important than any amp selection. I can get a fairly passable Motown/Stax tone with my P-Bass strung with flats: if I add a little overdrive with my DI box, it gets even closer. That said, when we play those tunes live, nobody notices but me--not even the dudes in my band!

--Steve

[jnewmark]

The onetime I saw Jamerson play back in the '60's, he was using a Kustom tuck n roll 215 cab, with the matching Kustom head. It sounded so good I went out and bought one. Other than the B15N, which imho is'nt loud enough, that old Kustom rig nails it, and you can still find them on Ebay time to time. Looks cool as hell too !

[Jim C]

Mr. Jamerson could have got his tone through any amp especially considering he did not go for an extremely bright tone or complex mid freqs.
It's all about the player.

I used to say that Lance Armstrong could have won the Tour d' France on a 70's Schwinn Stingray; in light of what has been in the news, perhaps his performance was also based on the juice rather than exclusively on the power inside him.

I doubt that James's expertise and sound was based solely on an amp, dead strings or alcoholism.
There is the possibility that he was an alien sent down by the Bass Gods to give us all a good schooling in R&B though.

[4Mal]

If I were building an old school R&B sounding rig, it woud be with a Streamliner and 15's -oh wait, I did that. Still like it too!

Flats are key. Fingers or rounds and felt pick if you have that technique dialed. (I don't but a local bud does. That thing makes me feel like it's a short bus day...). P bass is optional IMO, a 44-01 will get you in the neighborhood. IMO, the bolt on neck is not optional - I don't think I'd be going to Motown with an Alembic - if only for fear of getting rolled for it

And finally... A good set of headphones for recording and a wireless to get out fromt for sound check because the Motown sound thing is mostly about how and where the bass sits in the mix. That and those dynamite lines of course.

[DiabolusInMusic]

Amp does not matter, Ampeg is not part of the motown sound. I have posted this before and I am sure I will post it again.

"TripDave....The LaBella Flat Wound Medium Gauge should work for you but you may also want to try GHS Boomer Round Wounds Medium Gauge....You may be like the Rounds better, especially for live playing, more definition....I have been using the Elixirs Round Wounds /Medium Gauge on my Custom made Toad "Killer' Bass and I love the sound!
As far as the sponge...there are some soft ones you can find but if you only have the ones that get dry and brittle.....just wet it...thats what I did in the early years....
As far as the Amp if you spend a little time with it, regardless of the Amp you are using, I am sure you will find the sound you like....
Start out with the Bass/Treble/Mid knobs all Flat....
You can try Bass 2 o'clock, Treble 10 o'clock, and Mid 12 o'clock...You can tweak it from there, You also can try everything at 2 o'clock and tweak...Good Luck, Bob"

Yeah, that Bob.

Source.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

If I were building an old school R&B sounding rig, it woud be with a Streamliner and 15's -oh wait, I did that. Still like it too!

+1 on the Streamliner. It has the smoothness and clarity of a great tube studio channel strip and a terrific DI, with the perfect EQ for Motown and the ability to dial in as much or as little "hair" on the notes as you need. Plus, it's got the power to drive enough speakers for any kind of gig, indoor or outdoor, and it fits nicely into any gig bag or briefcase.

[JimiLL]

Warwick thumb and GK 800RB through Schroeder cabs











I kid

[RickenBoogie]

A GB cab was mentioned, but they make, (made) several. Which one? The cab is as or more important than the amp is. GB's Uber series has a very old school flavor, but still snappy and modern. Other GB cabs are modern all the way. I do agree, an Ampeg tube amp is a great starting point.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Amp does not matter, Ampeg is not part of the motown sound. I have posted this before and I am sure I will post it again.

"As far as the Amp if you spend a little time with it, regardless of the Amp you are using, I am sure you will find the sound you like....
Start out with the Bass/Treble/Mid knobs all Flat....
You can try Bass 2 o'clock, Treble 10 o'clock, and Mid 12 o'clock...You can tweak it from there, You also can try everything at 2 o'clock and tweak...Good Luck, Bob"

Yeah, that Bob.

Source.

Apparently, Ampeg was not on Bob's list, at this point in time:

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Amp does not matter, Ampeg is not part of the motown sound. I have posted this before and I am sure I will post it again.

+1
You can say it again. It need repeating.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by Stev187

I can't say enough about these books. Ed goes into great detail about the equipment and settings he used to try and nail the tone for the fantastic players in the book.

I also agree with previous posters about the physical approach to the bass being more important than any amp selection. I can get a fairly passable Motown/Stax tone with my P-Bass strung with flats: if I add a little overdrive with my DI box, it gets even closer. That said, when we play those tunes live, nobody notices but me--not even the dudes in my band!

--Steve

+1

With experiment, and talent, some pieces of gear can nail a sound from a recording. One amp, can "model" another. It's even true today with modern gear. It gets better, there are more options. The musician can nail the sound with the right tools. Technique is definitely needed in any case. If you're not nailing the sound, you may need to work the technique some more.