Best Cabinet For:

[Infa Red]

Hi all,

I'm kinda in a dilemma decision here. I have a 1970 Ampeg Blueline SVT Head. Of course originally meant to be used with a good ol 810. Now for shows, gigs, live, etc... that was cool. But it is time to retire that part and it is strictly STUDIO recording from here on out for this head. I do not want to get rid of it, cause even using it a very low levels for recording, I say it still sounds better than anything else. So knowing that, here is the thing:

For recording, I really want to cut back to a 410 or something similar in size and sound (tight, punchy, not boomy, nice round but fast response, not mushy, etc..).. AND for size purposes. I really don't need no 8 speaker tall heavy cab for recording. But I NEED that heads tone !! ha -- Now, heres the issue...

1- I don't want any of this new china made crap and of course I want the best.

2- AND I need to stay within my Ohms limitations (2 or 4 ohms)

3- I want massive headroom for that ridiculous clean sound and absolutely nowhere near any speaker break up. The SVT is 300watts of all tube power. As I will never be turning it up past 2-3 for recording (lol), I still want to make sure the cab can handle its watts.

Now - - For Ampeg new stuff, all that can only mean the Ampeg Heritage SVT-410HLF. But I wanna know, after the smoke cleared, what is the review of that cab ? Would it be suggested by you pros for my situation ? Is it frickin the best kick ass cab there is ?

Or do you recommend me searching for a old Ampeg cab for this head ? But if so, which one ? All the older 410's wont do me ohms wise. Unless someone knows something I don't.

Or is there another cab out there from another company that is a perfect match for my head and situation that would kick anal for my tonal desires ?

Or, if money was no issue, would you guys recommend me hiring my local Amp/Cab shop tech pros to custom make me a cab from scratch ? And IF SO, what do you recommend it be consisted of ? (Size, wood, speakers, placement, etc..)

Thanks for all input !!

[RickenBoogie]

Genz Benz Uber 410.

[rpsands]

tight, punchy, not boomy, nice round but fast response, not mushy, etc

2x12 with 3012HOs.

[Infa Red]

Great ! Thanks for the info so far. I would just like to clarify a few things though:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Genz Benz Uber 410.

Thanks R.Boogie for your input. I googled your suggestion and came up with a Genz Benz GB410TUB4 Uber Bass Cabinet. Rated at 1000w and going for like $1,100. Is that the exact one you were referring to ? Or does Genz Benz got a older vintage 410 Uber you were suggesting ?

Anyway, I really researched their site, and watched all their videos, etc.. So is the Uber series the best series they make ? I noticed a XB2 and XB3 line as well. How do all 3 of them line ups stack up against each other as far as tonal competition ?

Then after that, how does that best Genz Benz series of your choice stack up against a Ampeg Heritage SVT-410HLF as far as tonal competition ?

Thanks --

Originally Posted by rpsands

2x12 with 3012HOs.

Hey Rpsands, thanks for chiming in as well. So just to clarify, I am guessing you are saying to custom build a cab, and build it for two 12's (12's only, no horn driver or 6" mid too ?), and have them be the 12" 400 Watt - Eminence Kappalite 3012HO Neo 12" Cast Aluminum Frame Drivers ? (Please correct me if wrong)

If so, I got some questions and statements about that. As I have never heard the 3012HO's before, I really usually don't like the sound of 12's or 15's for bass just cause they are too boomy and slow response, and not enough good mids and hi's (bass type mids and his of course). 10"'s just always did my ears better. So was wondering your thoughts/direction of suggestion about that.

Do them 3012HO's come in a 10" ?

Also, they seem to be 8 ohm, so I would wire them in parallel ?

And why do you not recommend a 6-8" mid or horn driver in that scenario as well ?

Thanks

[BassistFreak416]

if custom built, go with LDS

[meRTKendrew]

Originally Posted by Infa Red

Hi all,
For recording, I really want to cut back to a 410 or something similar in size and sound (tight, punchy, not boomy, nice round but fast response, not mushy, etc..).. AND for size purposes. I really don't need no 8 speaker tall heavy cab for recording. But I NEED that heads tone !! ha -- Now, heres the issue...

1- I don't want any of this new china made crap and of course I want the best.

2- AND I need to stay within my Ohms limitations (2 or 4 ohms)

3- I want massive headroom for that ridiculous clean sound and absolutely nowhere near any speaker break up. The SVT is 300watts of all tube power. As I will never be turning it up past 2-3 for recording (lol), I still want to make sure the cab can handle its watts.

Now - - For Ampeg new stuff, all that can only mean the Ampeg Heritage SVT-410HLF. But I wanna know, after the smoke cleared, what is the review of that cab ? Would it be suggested by you pros for my situation ? Is it frickin the best kick ass cab there is ?

The heritage SVT-410HLF if just a pretty version of the classic 410HLF..
neither of which sound anything like a sealed 810 cab.


i REALLY think you should at least consider the Micro VR and/or the tech 21 VT bass for recording...



-RTK

[JimmyM]

the china crap cabs are actually a huge improvement over the last few years of american cabs. no chipboard, no blanket-covered speakers.

you can use pretty much any 4 ohm cab. but if i were recording in the studio, i'd look for an old ampeg 215 cab with jbl's or altecs in it before i'd get a 410hlf. not a fan of the super lows of the 410hlf. still, i think it would mic up very well also...just isn't my thing, though. can't say anything bad about genz benz, either. as a matter of fact, a lot of cabs would go great with it...mesa, bergantino, aggie, etc. i really don't think you can go too far wrong as long as you buy quality.

[rpsands]

You got it. They don't come in 10s.

I'd do it vertical, similar to the Genz Neox212T, but a bit smaller (The 3012HOs only need around 1.3cf/driver to perform admirably).

The 3012HO has high freq output superior off-axis to that of an 8x10 fridge, and extends on-axis up to around 4khz, which is close to that of the original 8x10 also.

You can see what it might look like done that way here:
http://barefacedbass.com/index.php?page=super-twelve

It can also be done with a tweeter or a midrange, but I don't think it needs it desperately if you're used to an 8x10's sound. I'd suggest a switchable horn if anything (on/off + attenuator, maybe).

3012HOs are not boomy at all. They are so flat on bottom it'll make you think it's a sealed cab, and the punch is amazing. Ridiculous sensitivity in the lower mids and mids (103db average above 100hz, almost comparable to a fridge).

For the record: I own a single 1x12 (tuned to 52hz, 1.2cf net internal) 3012HO and use it quite a bit for practice and small jamming. It's a good solid cab. For my purposes I would like a horn but it gets the job done without.

[rpsands]

Also:

The thing that makes most 12s/15s sound muddy is that they don't have the performance characteristics a 3012HO has which enable it to perform with no midbass hump in a tiny enclosure and yet still achieve quality bottom end.

Most 12" speakers are expecting 2+cf of internal space to avoid a boomy midbass hump (most 15" bass woofers expect 3.5-4+ cubic feet). The 3012HO can be stuffed into under 1 cubic foot and STILL be smooth in the midbass. It's an insanely cool driver.

[JumboJack]

http://www.bassplayer.com/article/am...il-2010/112159

[Infa Red]

Originally Posted by meRTKendrew

The heritage SVT-410HLF if just a pretty version of the classic 410HLF..
neither of which sound anything like a sealed 810 cab.


i REALLY think you should at least consider the Micro VR and/or the tech 21 VT bass for recording...
-RTK

What ?? No tubes ? - LOL - just joking, anyway, yea I got my solid state, other pres, and plug in side handled. For this tonal pallet, the focus is the best cab for my 70's Ampeg SVT blueline that will achieve my personal tonal goals and genre desires.

But thanks for the suggestion, that lets me know you think highly of the newer Ampeg Micro stack thing. I've been wondering about it. Was going to get it just for a practice set up so I don't burn up my million dollar circuitry just practicing. So you say its even good enough to record with ? Wow, I might just get it then.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

the china crap cabs are actually a huge improvement over the last few years of american cabs. no chipboard, no blanket-covered speakers.

you can use pretty much any 4 ohm cab. but if i were recording in the studio, i'd look for an old ampeg 215 cab with jbl's or altecs in it before i'd get a 410hlf. not a fan of the super lows of the 410hlf. still, i think it would mic up very well also...just isn't my thing, though. can't say anything bad about genz benz, either. as a matter of fact, a lot of cabs would go great with it...mesa, bergantino, aggie, etc. i really don't think you can go too far wrong as long as you buy quality.

Jimmy, thanks for this reply. I didn't think to maybe start judging China and Taiwan made stuff differently cause eventually, they actually might start pumping out decent quality. Practice makes perfect - and they are getting ALOT of practice lately

Also, dude, I totally agree with the HLF on the lows (just reading the specs and knowing what ported cabs do), BUT one of my session bass dudes says you can get the best of both worlds from ported cabs by fabricating some extreme high density foam or rubber perfectly to stuff/block the ports when you want that tighter sealed cab sound. The take it out when you happen to want that looser bigger low end woof. Don't know, but thought I'd run that by you to see if that is just a lame idea. If that was a probable thing to do with great success, then the HLF comes right back into play maybe ? Sounding like you didn't think it could, but also having a secondary tonal pallet to it. (?? IDK, What'cha think ??)

Generally I feel your right as far as, with a SVT like I got, how can you go wrong ? Any high end quality cab will pump out some serious anus.

But my point here is not just get what will work good, to really pin point what you pros and more experienced bassers would recommend to match up with that SVT that ALSO does the BEST job giving me my personal tonal and genre desires out of all the cabs that would work.

Shooting for these genres/tonal goals:

A) Super Clean, absolutely NO speaker break up or speaker distortion
B) Fat but NOT boomy
C) Round but yet PUNCHY
D) Very defined and rich, NOT Mushy
E) All that with still having a proper snappy high end

F) Genres featuring: R&B, Soul, Funk, Hip Hop, Top 40's, Commercial Pop, cool good ol' Rock, 70's and 80's music sound - Fusion of all, etc... NO METAL, no hard rock, no country.

(Think the bass line from "Brick House" by The Commodores, Or that bassline in "Magic Man" by Heart. Or the bassline in "I Keep Forgettin" by Michael McDonald, etc.. those tones)

Originally Posted by rpsands

You got it. They don't come in 10s.

I'd do it vertical, similar to the Genz Neox212T, but a bit smaller (The 3012HOs only need around 1.3cf/driver to perform admirably).

It can also be done with a tweeter or a midrange, but I don't think it needs it desperately if you're used to an 8x10's sound. I'd suggest a switchable horn if anything (on/off + attenuator, maybe).

3012HOs are not boomy at all. They are so flat on bottom it'll make you think it's a sealed cab, and the punch is amazing. Ridiculous sensitivity in the lower mids and mids (103db average above 100hz, almost comparable to a fridge).

Also:

The thing that makes most 12s/15s sound muddy is that they don't have the performance characteristics a 3012HO has which enable it to perform with no midbass hump in a tiny enclosure and yet still achieve quality bottom end.

Ah ok,, this is all good info rpsands. So these Eminence 3012HO's are just a new bad ass breed of 12's it what it is. Damn, I wanna hear them first so I could say I agree with you or not before I go and design a whole cab around them. Either way, great idea and suggestion and thanks for the details too. I now am putting serious thought into this. But for my described tonal desires matched with a SVT head, I am wondering which would be better really ?

[Infa Red]

I guess I really should have also gave you guys this info.

Best cab matched with a old Ampeg 70's Blueline SVT for studio recording only that would give me this:

Shooting for these genres/tonal goals:

A) Super Clean, absolutely NO speaker break up or speaker distortion
B) Fat but NOT boomy
C) Round but yet PUNCHY
D) Very defined and rich, NOT Mushy
E) All that with still having a proper snappy high end

F) Genres featuring: R&B, Soul, Funk, Hip Hop, Top 40's, Commercial Pop, cool good ol' Rock, 70's and 80's music sound - Fusion of all, etc... NO METAL, no hard rock, no country.

Think of the bass line from "Brick House" by The Commodores, Or that bassline in "Magic Man" by Heart. Or the bassline in "I Keep Forgettin" by Michael McDonald, etc.. those tones -

SVT is 2-4 ohms and 300 tube watts - (But this is for studio recording, so I will never turn it up probably past 1 or 2)

[paganjack]

I'd check out Bergantino stuff. I hear nothing but great things about them (and have heard some great sounds out of them at shows). Maybe the HS410 would be a good match for you.

You may want to look into Aguilar stuff too (probably the GS series from the sound of your tone goals)- it sounds reminiscent of Ampeg, but is somewhat cleaner and clearer. I love Mesa gear too- it's more on the aggressive side of things, but is just rad.

[rpsands]

Go check out the reviews of the Barefaced midget/super twelve/etc. Those cabs are fantastic and they're using 3012HOs as far as I am aware.

What you describe is pretty much exactly a 3012HO with a horn if you want a snappy top end

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Infa Red

Think of the bass line from "Brick House" by The Commodores, Or that bassline in "Magic Man" by Heart. Or the bassline in "I Keep Forgettin" by Michael McDonald, etc.. those tones -

How about "Lowdown" by Boz Skaggs? Your kind of tune as well?

MM

[JimmyM]

i'm getting a couple bass cabs made with 3012lf's and a mid driver, btw, and going to run an svt through them live. but i'm not sure why you'd want to use them in the studio when your tonal goals sound more di-oriented. i'd get a di you can run through the speaker out. it sounds amazing with an svt for a big fat modern clean sound...not at all unlike a reddi.

but if it's clean and even but not muddy that you want, it's hard to argue with those types of cabs.

[babebambi]

OP, how do you define speaker break-up? You want clean so no grinding at all?

I ask because I think the Breg AE410 matches most of you goal but has a high-mid grind of sort. This cab is articulate, punchy and great match to tame the low of a SVT. Adjustable horn to tailor the treble to taste.

The Berg HS410 is also another option for the SVT; if you manage to find a used Sadosky SA410, then even better.

The 410 HLF is maybe the worst head to pair with a big tube head, if you want anything even close to a balance tone; that cab is very bottom heavy.

[Infa Red]

God I love you guys -- just such a constant wealth of excellent information and well thought out suggestions. Seriously , thanks to everyone for their time on this.

Originally Posted by paganjack

I'd check out Bergantino stuff. I hear nothing but great things about them (and have heard some great sounds out of them at shows). Maybe the HS410 would be a good match for you.

You may want to look into Aguilar stuff too (probably the GS series from the sound of your tone goals)- it sounds reminiscent of Ampeg, but is somewhat cleaner and clearer. I love Mesa gear too- it's more on the aggressive side of things, but is just rad.

Thanks to you, I have now learned about these 2 brands, and I have them down on my list now. Actually from just research and specs alone, I am now really leaning towards the Berg line. Either a HS or AE. That I got to do more asking and thinking.

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

How about "Lowdown" by Boz Skaggs? Your kind of tune as well?

MM

Hell ya brah !! That song is another one of my favorites. Who don't like that song ? I would say tonal wise it is definitely in the same ballpark as the others I mention and yes, part of my tonal goal therefore. Maybe just a touch (and I mean a touch) "nicer" sounding than the other "meaner" bass lines I mentioned. (but that may just be the difference in notes causing a illusion).. Either way, RIGHT TRACK !

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i'm getting a couple bass cabs made with 3012lf's and a mid driver, btw, and going to run an svt through them live. but i'm not sure why you'd want to use them in the studio when your tonal goals sound more di-oriented. i'd get a di you can run through the speaker out. it sounds amazing with an svt for a big fat modern clean sound...not at all unlike a reddi.

but if it's clean and even but not muddy that you want, it's hard to argue with those types of cabs.

(ahhhh very intelligent observation-- good one Jimmy)
Yea, I didn't want to get too far into it and bore you guys with my insanity lol - but my main recording approach for guitar and bass (and even sometimes keyboards) is to split the signal and run one DI in and the other mic'ed. So yea, I do plan on doing what your saying, but also stick to mic'ing a cab.

Then I mix the 2 tracks after carving them out to my desires to properly reach my vision. Sometimes I admit I end up muting one and not using it at all, but it is better for it to be there than not IMO.

So yea, of course I see your point, but I am sticking to mic'ing a cab still, even when using a DI too. And still, want the cab/head combo to be the best married couple they can be.

(So PS, do you got any mad nut cool boutiquey DI suggestions too ? Peep my other thread for that subject here

Originally Posted by babebambi

OP, how do you define speaker break-up? You want clean so no grinding at all?

I ask because I think the Breg AE410 matches most of you goal but has a high-mid grind of sort. This cab is articulate, punchy and great match to tame the low of a SVT. Adjustable horn to tailor the treble to taste.

The Berg HS410 is also another option for the SVT; if you manage to find a used Sadosky SA410, then even better.

The 410 HLF is maybe the worst head to pair with a big tube head, if you want anything even close to a balance tone; that cab is very bottom heavy.

Right on BabeBambi for breakin it down. What you say makes since.

Let me first answer: What I meant by speaker break up, is some people actually like to get distortion from their speakers as well as their tubes. Now for a guitar when I'm going for that sound, SURE, nothin beats my vintage Marshall JMP or JCM800's with some speakers rated right at the break up point to distort. Yea, I like it too, but only for my guitars (and at that only on certain songs)...

But man, my bass, I like clean. No speaker distortion like that, tube saturation is cool but for bass I don't even like mass tube distortion like some kats do. So I didn't mean a "grind", I meant literal distortion break up.

And your suggestions along with everyone elses got me really going towards these Berg's or a Sadowsky or Genz Benz now, and then maybe down the road a bit for even more tonal flavor I will also custom make a cab with 2 3012HO's and a tweeter (as per rpsands advice). So it's looking like one of the Bergs, Genz Benz or Sadowsky first. Now to just decide which, and why ?

Maybe to focus more on it, I will start another thread if thats cool ? Or do they not like that ? Either way, the Ampeg Heritage HLF is OUT. Thanks to all for helping me narrow this down.

[JimmyM]

for a clean di, i'd go universal audio or avalon. for an svt di, which can be very clean but usually sounds a little edgy, i'd just use a radial or countryman. my all time favorite di is the a designs reddi, but probably not what you had in mind.

[Infa Red]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

for a clean di, i'd go universal audio or avalon. for an svt di, which can be very clean but usually sounds a little edgy, i'd just use a radial or countryman. my all time favorite di is the a designs reddi, but probably not what you had in mind.

Yo, Jimmy - are we two awesome peas hangin out in the same super cool pod man or what ? - Yea, that Reddi DI is on my list already. Its exactly what I had in mind, but was torn between that and a few other top notch high end boutiquey ones. Go to my other thread **DI THREAD, CLICK HERE** and look at what I have on my decision list, and tell me which you think is best. I have links to them all if you click on their names.