Best Upgrade path for Genz Benz

[Aaron_D]

Im currently using the shuttle 6.0 2x10 combo with another 2x10 extension speaker (both are the standard Genz Benz STL-210t neo cabs that come with the shuttle 2x10 combo).

Im looking to upgrade for larger stages / outdoor shows. My current setup kills in medium size rooms, but really drops off for larger venues.

I was thinking about upgrading to the 9.0. But im worried the 6.0 is perfectly matched to my current cab setup and the 9.0 wont give me the extra loudness Im seeking.

My other option would be an ampeg 8x10 i keep seeing used around town, but I would have to drive it with my shuttle 6, and Im wondering how big a pain in the ass it would be to move the fridge.

Im open to any other suggestions, but im capped around 800 bucks to spend.

For reference I play in a country band that is a little heavier than traditional country. My bass is an 06 MIA jazz deluxe strung with flats.

[KJung]

You won't notice much difference between the 6 and 9 with those cabs IMO. Unless you really need to crank (i.e., huge venues or outside with no front of house), more full size, full range, high SPL cabs (either an Uber 410/4ohm or Uber 210's/8ohm) if you want to stay within the Genz family would provide a lot more volume and low end with your current head.

For $800, you could probably snag a used Bergantino AE410, which would probably scratch your itch.

[JimmyM]

how are you stacking your cabs? if you're stacking them like this:

OO
OO

try stacking them like this:

O
O
O
O

and see if that helps. a lot of folks are switching to stacking 210's like that so they get the throw of an 810 and a speaker closer to ear level. it also greatly helps with mid and high dispersion. and best of all, it won't cost any more money!

[Aaron_D]

Oh Im definitely stacking them vertically! It just loses everything on big stages / outdoors if Im more than 10-15 feet away. Its fine for half the shows we do (better than fine), but just lacks the volume for big stages. The lows suffer the worst sounding really farty especially outside and in big auditoriums. I can fill a small club no problem, but if the room is expansive...no dice.

I wonder if super high quality 2x10s would even cut it. Like...two uber 2x10 stacked powered by a shuttle 9. I might just need more speaker area, which is why I keep eyeing the svt 810

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Aaron_D

Oh Im definitely stacking them vertically! It just loses everything on big stages / outdoors if Im more than 10-15 feet away. Its fine for half the shows we do (better than fine), but just lacks the volume for big stages. The lows suffer the worst sounding really farty especially outside and in big auditoriums. I can fill a small club no problem, but if the room is expansive...no dice.

I wonder if super high quality 2x10s would even cut it. Like...two uber 2x10 stacked powered by a shuttle 9. I might just need more speaker area, which is why I keep eyeing the svt 810

Those particular 210's you have don't wump very hard. There would be very few gigs you couldn't do with a Shuttle 9 and an Uber410, or equivalent rig from another company IMO.

[Aaron_D]

only 2 grand eh?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Aaron_D

only 2 grand eh?

Yeah, I hear you. However, a used, high quality 4ohm 410 might get you where you need to go within your budget.

It's not that your current 210's are not 'high quality', but rather they were designed for moderate volume use, relatively polite low end, and to be very portable. Something has to give, and that 'something' is low end push at high volumes.

[Aaron_D]

Okay, that makes sense. So, no love for the shuttle 6.0 + svt 8/10E?

[fenderhutz]

Get an Avatar 212. Stack with your current combo. Crank away.

When you didn't need the extra coverage you still have your combo to tote around.

[SactoBass]

Aaron D:

Want more low end push at higher SPL's? Look into the fEarful 15/6 cab design. Don Oatman at Low Down Sound (LDS) will make you a fEarful-based 15/6 for around 600 bucks (I have no affiliation with LDS). But you will need to pump around 500 watts at 8-ohms into it. Your shuttle 6 won't do that, but a 9 would. The fEarful 15/6 type cab would leave a pair of 2x10's in the dust.

EDIT: and, the LDS cab would only weigh around 45 pounds. Much easier schlep than a fridge cab!!

[SteveC]

My GB path went something like this:

GBE600 and NeoX212
Neo-Pak and NeoX112/212
Shuttle 3.0-10T/110 Extension Cab
Shuttle Max 12 and Shuttle 112 Exension Cab
Shuttle 6.0-12T and Shuttle 112 Exension Cab
Shuttle 6.0-12T

Went from big/big to small/big to small/small to medium.
My current gigs really only require the 3.0-10T and maybe the extension cab. I may trade back to that, but not until I try a Shuttle 9.0 with the new Uber Quad. I am also tempted to go Shuttle 9.0 and Uber 410. Overkill for my gigs, but it would sound amazing.

[Gort]

You don't have PA support for the bass for larger/outdoor gigs?

[Marty Forrer]

Gort, you beat me to it. There's a point at which no reasonable bass gear is going to exceed (unless you have a truck and four roadies), you could have a 2000w power amp and four 8x10s and you'll still struggle. Big gigs are what sound reinforcement is all about, bass amps are just stage monitors.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Gort, you beat me to it. There's a point at which no reasonable bass gear is going to exceed (unless you have a truck and four roadies), you could have a 2000w power amp and four 8x10s and you'll still struggle. Big gigs are what sound reinforcement is all about, bass amps are just stage monitors.

IMO, not necessarily. Just depends on the type of music and the situation. I've played small, outdoor gigs without PA support MANY time, and a good 410 with a nice mid power amp covered the patio or whatever wonderfully. A couple little Shuttle cabs... not so much.

Same thing with large venues. Many times, you are trying to just cover a dancefloor in a large room. PA will carry vocals, horns, keys, and maybe bass drum... guitar and bass on their own.

That being said, I agree, for the large outdoor events, or a more concert type gig in a large venue, you would always have front of house. Even then, though, you often don't have your own monitor mix, and you need a bit of ooomph to cover the stage and to generate a decent enough tone at high enough volume to be happy.

[DRafalske]

My other option would be an ampeg 8x10 i keep seeing used around town, but I would have to drive it with my shuttle 6, and Im wondering how big a pain in the ass it would be to move the fridge.

When I need lots of volume, I hook my 6.0 up to my Kustom G810H and it's exactly what I need.
The fridge isn't too hard to move. Yes, it's heavy, but the handle on the back and the wheels make it easy to move around. Lifting it into the truck is another story. I can manage alone, but I'm about 6'2" / 275. Two people is definitely a lot easier.

D

[OtterOnBass]

Upgrade can be in volume, or in control. If it's not loud enough 10-15 feet away, you have a problem controlling sound. A PA is going to be your best bet.

[Aaron_D]

Always have very nice PA support. Im talking for stage only. But Im starting to think its a lost cause...on those kinds of stages you just arent going to get by without sidefills / monitors.

You guys realize Im talking about big outdoor stages or rooms that are like auditoriums right? For everything else, I love my tone and the volume is usually more than fine.

[agreatheight]

Originally Posted by Aaron_D

But Im starting to think its a lost cause...on those kinds of stages you just arent going to get by without sidefills / monitors.

I have done a ton of of outdoor shows when I was younger and fortunately all supplied a backline with a big head and 810. An 810 will get the job done. If I were in your boat I'd go GK1000 (or some other well powered head) + fridge.