Bi-Amp Without X-Over ???

[The WideBody]

sorry if this has been covered already. tried searching but couldn't find anything specifically related to my questions.

if my amp doesn't have an internal crossover, what are my options to bi-amping.

the obvious answer is running two amps and messing with the eq of each to cover a different area of the tonal spectrum, but that seems so unscientific.

thanks for your input.

az

[zon5string]

Without a crossover, it isn't, by definition, "bi-amping", is it? The crossover is what splits the signal at a given frequency sending everything below the setpoint to one destination and everything else to another.

[Mr. Foxen]

Use an external crossover.

[3506string]

Why and what are you trying to bi-amp?

[ric3xrt]

Get a preamp with a crossover, or by a stand alone crossover
.....there are plenty of good choices out there.

[The WideBody]

Originally Posted by 3506string

Why and what are you trying to bi-amp?

just experimenting. i may shortly have two rigs in my possession, however shortlived, and i want to see what this effect is like. neither of the rigs have a crossover.

[The WideBody]

Originally Posted by ric3xrt

Get a preamp with a crossover, or by a stand alone crossover
.....there are plenty of good choices out there.

sounds newbie, but can you point me in a direction. probably the cheapest direction first. thanks.

[morgansterne]

I was thinking of doing the same thing . . . My 15" cab pounds but there's not a lot of high end, even when I turn up the highs (markbass little mark II). I hooked up an old 12" yamaha monitor I had laying around, which brought me more highs (it has a tweeter also, the 15" doesn't). But the 12" is only 250 watts handling so I thought:

Hmm, I could just wire in a capacitor to keep the lows outta the small cab.

I don't know what I'd need but it seems like a reasonable way to go. Any thoughts?

Morgan

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by morgansterne

I was thinking of doing the same thing . . . My 15" cab pounds but there's not a lot of high end, even when I turn up the highs (markbass little mark II). I hooked up an old 12" yamaha monitor I had laying around, which brought me more highs (it has a tweeter also, the 15" doesn't). But the 12" is only 250 watts handling so I thought:

Hmm, I could just wire in a capacitor to keep the lows outta the small cab.

I don't know what I'd need but it seems like a reasonable way to go. Any thoughts?

Morgan

It may seem that way, but it really isn't. It is better to use matching speakers/cabinets.

[ric3xrt]

234 Stereo 2/3 Way, Mono 4-Way Crossover:: dbx® Professional Products
Peavey.com


Not sure how cheep you want to go, but Ebag has always got some deals,
Peavey's web site has good info on the use of stand alone crossovers.
Honestly I think your better off going in the preamp direction.
Yamaha PB1
Trace Elliot SMX 12
Trace Elliot Series 6 GP12X
BBE 383
Rocktron Basix (bad example, and hard to find)

[3506string]

Nothing wrong with experimenting.

I bi-amp and I will say that even playing around with my woofer/mid crossed as low as 300-400hz you would be surprised at how little content actually makes it up that high.

I am using a 6" speaker for mids and even when my woofers start sweating the mid/tweeter aren't even breathing hard. It's would be a huge waste of a entire bass cab bigger than a 1x8 or maybe 1x10 to just play hi/mid frequencies through.

For experimentation purposes. I would start at just what you said just messing around with the eq's. No it's not ideal but you may run across something you like.

Also if you would like to see what you two cabs would sound like with an actual crossover, you can use a DAW. Record yourself playing for a couple of minutes. Then take the file and copy it to another track. Then take each track and pan one hard right and the other hard left. Put a high pass filter on one track and a low pass on the other. You can play around with the crossover filter and slope. This is what I did when I was waiting for my crossover to be delievered, except I was running live instead of recorded. You would need a cable to send a separate left and right two different amps. If you are just using your your headphone out, you would need a stereo 1/8" to (2) mono 1/4".

Hope this helps.

[nysbob]

It may be unscientific, but I've been running two amps that do different jobs for 30+ years without a crossover, and it works great for me. I don't lug all this to every gig, but the ones where I want a killer stage sound sound I do.

Not scientific, but very musical.



Why not experiment with what you've got using tone controls before running out and buying a crossover? If you come up with something you like, you've saved some money AND successfully irritated all the audio experts on the internet.

[robd]

I agree you dont need a crossover to biamp. I used to run a biamp rig with both being full range but one was a clean modern sound and the other was a tube overdriven sound...depends on what you are going for.

[Mr. Foxen]

Originally Posted by robd

I agree you dont need a crossover to biamp. I used to run a biamp rig with both being full range but one was a clean modern sound and the other was a tube overdriven sound...depends on what you are going for.

If there isn't a crossover or functional equivalent, it isn't biamping. Biamping has a specific meaning, involving splitting the signal using the crossover. Dual amping covers using two rigs.

[lbwdog]

For me, the Bi-Amp (bass) days have come and gone.
It just isn't necessary anymore.

They're making cabs and amps good enough these days that all the frequencies I need are covered with plenty of power. (IMO)

[Mr. Foxen]

It is still handy for if you want different frequency bands effected, and funny sound dynamics in the room.

[nysbob]

Originally Posted by lbwdog

For me, the Bi-Amp (bass) days have come and gone.
It just isn't necessary anymore.

They're making cabs and amps good enough these days that all the frequencies I need are covered with plenty of power. (IMO)

All those statements could translate to something like this, but some people just enjoy seeing and hearing what it does.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by morgansterne

I was thinking of doing the same thing . . . My 15" cab pounds but there's not a lot of high end, even when I turn up the highs (markbass little mark II). I hooked up an old 12" yamaha monitor I had laying around, which brought me more highs (it has a tweeter also, the 15" doesn't). But the 12" is only 250 watts handling so I thought:

Hmm, I could just wire in a capacitor to keep the lows outta the small cab.

Yes, you can. This will do the job:
100uF 100V Non-Polarized Capacitor 027-360

If you want a bit better result and don't mind the price get this:
Dayton Audio DMPC-100 100uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor 027-447

The 6dB filtering below 200Hz is just enough to keep the twelve from having over-excursion and power handling problems and eases the impedance load on the amp. .

[walterw]

Originally Posted by nysbob

Not scientific, but very musical.



Why not experiment with what you've got using tone controls before running out and buying a crossover? If you come up with something you like, you've saved some money AND successfully irritated all the audio experts on the internet.

lemme guess, the 2 15s get the SVT clean, and the 2x12 gets the marshall crunchy, maybe with the lows rolled off a little?

so you're running the actual bass frequencies through two matched cabs stacked vertically?

seems perfectly "scientific" to me

[nysbob]

You've got it there, Walter. The tone stack inputs on the marshall are by nature very thin sounding - to beef it up you need to jump to the other inputs...so I just keep that side dialed back. I actually run the marshall clean too - if turned up to distortion level those twelves would tear your head off.

I look to the rack stuff for distortion.