Bi-amping

Frikkn · #1 09-16-2011, 06:11 AM

Hey guys!

I've been wanting to experiment with bi-amping for a while and now I finally have the money

I currently run a Peavey Tour 700 amp into a 2x15 trace elliot, around 500 watts, and a 2x10 ashdown cab, about 250 watts both rated at 8 ohm impedance.

Basically I want to amplify each cab seperately, my Line 6 pedal has a built in crossover that I can make use of.

Basically I'm having trouble finding an amp that would power the trace with 500 watts @ 8 ohm.

And is it true that tube amps are perceived as louder with the same wattage as a solid state? Would a 500 watt tube amp @ 8 ohms be overkill?

vbchaos · #2 09-16-2011, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frikkn

Would a 500 watt tube amp @ 8 ohms be overkill?

I guess that would be enough to tear down the wall!!!

Not only the wall, but any wall

Frikkn · #3 09-16-2011, 06:21 AM

I want that 2x15 to handle the low B string from my warwick with some headroom! Been struggling to find something that would make the 2x15 sweat a bit :P

Been looking at ampegs to power the 2x15 and probably just a solid state for the 2x10. Thoughts?

Mr. Foxen · #4 09-16-2011, 06:37 AM

Both those cabs are designe to operate 'full range', so not much advantage is biamping with them. High passing the 10s might mean you can do more before they fart out, but doesn't provide much advantage. High passing is useful if you want to run a guitar rig at the same time as a bass one, as the drivers can't take lows, but no point biamping with two bass cabs.

Frikkn · #5 09-16-2011, 06:39 AM

The 2x10 just starts distorting before the 2x15. I don't want to damage the 2x10 by overpowering it so I want to get an amp thats just right for it. Also want to experiment with keeping one channel clean and running all the effects through just one of them.

Oobly · #6 09-16-2011, 06:53 AM

Hi, there are quite a few 2 channel power amps out there that can do what you want.

The Crown XLS2500 has 2 channels that can each do 440W into 8 ohm. Separate volume control for each channel. It's also relatively affordable and comes with a 3 year warranty

If your Line6 can give 2 line level outputs, then you're golden. If not, you will need either a stereo or 2 mono preamps.

Frikkn · #7 09-16-2011, 07:00 AM

That sounds pretty good Oobly!

Wont the 440W be too much for the 2x10 though? I've looked at 2-channel amps but always figured if its enough for the 2x15 it will be too much for the 2x10!

Edit: The Line 6 offers 2 line leve outputs! I have no idea about power amps though :P

stingraysvt · #8 09-16-2011, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frikkn

Hey guys!
Would a 500 watt tube amp @ 8 ohms be overkill?

If you could transport it!!

stingraysvt · #9 09-16-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frikkn

That sounds pretty good Oobly!

Wont the 440W be too much for the 2x10 though? I've looked at 2-channel amps but always figured if its enough for the 2x15 it will be too much for the 2x10!

Edit: The Line 6 offers 2 line level outputs! I have no idea about power amps though :P

it'll take it

Stereo power amp is your best bet, 2 rack spaces, less hassle, you could attenuate the 210's if you thought you were brutalizing them.

I would imagine with a 215 you'd want to run it alot higher into the low mids biamped to get the best of the cab, at that point 210's will not be doing a lot of work.

**Chef** · #10 09-16-2011, 07:20 AM

Running bi-amp with two full range cabs isn't the bet approach, IMO.
To get the best out of that philosophy, you'll want one cab designed for lows, and one cab designed for mids and highs, and a dedicated preamp and power amp to help you maximize that.
The Eden Navigator, and a qsc/plx series amp would be a good starting point for those bits.

tom-g · #11 09-16-2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oobly

Hi, there are quite a few 2 channel power amps out there that can do what you want.

The Crown XLS2500 has 2 channels that can each do 440W into 8 ohm. Separate volume control for each channel. It's also relatively affordable and comes with a 3 year warranty

If your Line6 can give 2 line level outputs, then you're golden. If not, you will need either a stereo or 2 mono preamps.

Why would he need 2 line level outputs from the preamp? The XLS in crossover mode works with only 1 input channel (which is also true for Mono-Bridged).

**Chef** · #12 09-16-2011, 07:28 AM

Yes, you would need a power amp with two inputs, one for low band, one for high band frequencies: a stereo power amp.

When I was running the Navigator/QSC, I ran two full range cabs, and ran the pre and power amp "dual mono," two channels each pushing the same signal, and used the preamps balance control to blend the cabs together to my liking.

I did not run a sub cab and a mids/highs cab. Most cabs are full range design, and pretty good at it.

billfitzmaurice · #13 09-16-2011, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frikkn

I currently run a Peavey Tour 700 amp into a 2x15 trace elliot, around 500 watts, and a 2x10 ashdown cab, about 250 watts both rated at 8 ohm impedance.

Basically I want to amplify each cab seperately, ?

Use the Peavey with the 2x15, get a 50 watt or so guitar head to power the 2x10.

**Chef** · #14 09-16-2011, 07:30 AM

That'd work reasonably well!

tom-g · #15 09-16-2011, 07:31 AM

No, not true with the example given. The XLS has a builtin crossover and you only need one input.

**Chef** · #16 09-16-2011, 07:32 AM

Ah; ok then.

**BLDavis** · #17 09-16-2011, 07:40 AM

It can be done by several different methods, some already mentioned above. And you can do a search for "bi-amping" and read for days on the subject. And, it'll be a fun and educational experience for you. But sooner or later you'll find out that you spent a lot of time and a LOT of money for a rig that dosent really sound any better than a plain old full range rig. I would put your Tour 700 and that Trace 215 cab up against almost any bi-amp rig and be a very happy camper.
Also, do a search for "tube watts vs ss watts". Several more days of fun reading there too.
Good luck.

B.

Oobly · #18 09-16-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom-g

No, not true with the example given. The XLS has a builtin crossover and you only need one input.

Yup, that's true. Problem is that then you have no way to control the volume to each cab individually, which I think is valuable with the mismatched cab ratings.

Something that makes sense in bi-amping full range cabs is to push distortion through one only and keep the other clean to retain the bottom end. I vote the 210 for the distortion channel and 215 for clean.

Either way, the amp is pretty powerful and provides a flexible solution.

Mr. Foxen · #19 09-16-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frikkn

The 2x10 just starts distorting before the 2x15. I don't want to damage the 2x10 by overpowering it so I want to get an amp thats just right for it. Also want to experiment with keeping one channel clean and running all the effects through just one of them.

What does the 2x10 add? Probably better off just not using it. Or high passing it.

tom-g · #20 09-16-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oobly

Yup, that's true. Problem is that then you have no way to control the volume to each cab individually, which I think is valuable with the mismatched cab ratings.

Something that makes sense in bi-amping full range cabs is to push distortion through one only and keep the other clean to retain the bottom end. I vote the 210 for the distortion channel and 215 for clean.

Either way, the amp is pretty powerful and provides a flexible solution.

The volume for each cab can be controlled with the XLS. When in crossover mode each channel's volume is still adjustable.