Bi amping for the lows: 4x10 or 1x18?

Josh Emmons · #1 07-28-2011, 03:16 PM

I understand what bi amping is. the highs and upper mids I will send to a 4x10 goliath 2. but the lows.... Would it be better to run the lows through a 4x10, or a 1x18?

1. What would the sound differences between the 4x10 and 1x18 be?

2. What would sound better?

3. If the 1x18 sounds better, what cab should I use?

rpsands · #2 07-28-2011, 03:19 PM

Just don't bother.

Josh Emmons · #3 07-28-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Just don't bother.

?

will33 · #4 07-28-2011, 03:25 PM

Your cabs aren't designed for it. You can biamp an 18 to a single 10, not 4 of them. Well you could by keeping the highs volume way down but you'd be dragging around three 10's and 80% of the box size and weight for nothing.

Josh Emmons · #5 07-28-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Your cabs aren't designed for it. You can biamp an 18 to a single 10, not 4 of them. Well you could by keeping the highs volume way down but you'd be dragging around three 10's and 80% of the box size and weight for nothing.

What?? There is a bi amp mode on my eden WT 800. not from my 4 10.

Josh Emmons · #6 07-28-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Your cabs aren't designed for it. You can biamp an 18 to a single 10, not 4 of them. Well you could by keeping the highs volume way down but you'd be dragging around three 10's and 80% of the box size and weight for nothing.

I think you misread my post.

Bass_Pounder · #7 07-28-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Emmons

What?? There is a bi amp mode on my eden WT 800. not from my 4 10.

Just because it's there does not mean you have to use it.

Bi-amping should only be done with speakers designed for that purpose.

Most bass cabs out there are full range speakers, and should be run as such.

Bass_Pounder · #8 07-28-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Emmons

I think you misread my post.

No, he read it just fine.

The point that is being made is that when bi-amping, a single 10" speaker is more than enough to cover the mids/highs when combined with an 18" doing duty as a sub.

The other 3 speakers in your 4X10, and the whole cab for that matter are just useless weight.

will33 · #9 07-28-2011, 03:37 PM

The 410 has horrible dispersion and would play the mids/highs wwaaayyy louder than the 18 can play the lows making a really unbalanced sound. To sound good you want the lows and highs to be similair in spl, that's why people play 2way cabs with one 15 and one 6 in them, or 215's and 26's. An 18 would work well biamped with a single 10" speaker.

kosmicwizard · #10 07-28-2011, 03:42 PM

Just because your head has it doesn't mean it needs to be used. I have a 50 watt tweeter amp in my G-K 1001RB-II but I never use it. If you chose to bi-amp, you are running into full range cabinets. You have to lug around way more weight in cabs and they are only making noise on certain notes. I wouldn't do it either. The 18 on top of the 410 would be able to compete more volume wise since it is at ear level, however, the surface area of a 410 is much greater than an 18 and thus the comment from will33. Also a lot of people on here will tell you that you will hear phasing issues. Why not just mono-bridge the amp into however many speakers you need to be loud enough for the size of the venue and be done with it? Cheers.

rpsands · #11 07-28-2011, 03:42 PM

Bridge the WT800 into an 8x10. Problem solved. Make sure yours is bridgeable at 4 ohms first, IIRC only the early models were not.

mattj1stc · #12 07-28-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Just because it's there does not mean you have to use it.

Bi-amping should only be done with speakers designed for that purpose.

Most bass cabs out there are full range speakers, and should be run as such.

+1 to this. I get the best results running the full signal to both cabs (1 4x10 and 1 2x10). The differences in amp (each cab has its own amp), EQ (of the amp) and the inherent differences in the cabs bring out the best in the rig, but each gets a full signal.

scottfeldstein · #13 07-28-2011, 03:44 PM

I used to biamp an 18 with two 10s. Worked beautifully for me. I did have an adjustable crossover, though, so I could really tweak what speakers were getting what.

I think biamping is an over-engineered solution for me these days. I would just prefer to send all to all and match the cabs. Right now it's two 2x10s.

markkoelsch · #14 07-28-2011, 03:49 PM

You could do it, but the questions you need to ask are what 4x10, what 18, and what crossover point?

Are the 410 and 18 of comparable efficiency? If so, you could biamp. I would probably crosover farely low though as 18" speakers in my experience do not go very high- maybe 200-300 HZ crossover. At this point though, most of your fundamentals would be going to the 18, and you do not need a 410 as the power level of the harmonics could be handled by a single 10.

The modern 410 is pretty good at full range. The 18 is not.

DO you have both cabinets already?

dmusic148 · #15 07-28-2011, 03:49 PM

The only example of bi-amping that makes sense to me these days is the GK solution, where the tweeter in the cab receives it's own signal via a special cable. The idea is to keep the tweeter signal clean, but allow grit in the woofers only, from the Boost circuit.

billfitzmaurice · #16 07-28-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Emmons

I understand what bi amping is. the highs and upper mids I will send to a 4x10 goliath 2. but the lows.... Would it be better to run the lows through a 4x10, or a 1x18?

Neither. You should be using sixes or eights for the highs and upper mids, and only those designed as midrange drivers.

Marko5657 · #17 07-28-2011, 03:57 PM

Personally, if I’ve got two cabinets capable of producing a full-range signal, I wouldn’t see the point in reducing each to half of what they’re capable of.

RickenBoogie · #18 07-28-2011, 03:58 PM

+1 to all. Using normal full range bass cabs, it just makes no sense at all to try to bi-amp it. You'd need speakers designed to work with the frequencies you're amp's crossover is set to. Otherwise, big waste of time and effort.

bassbrad · #19 07-28-2011, 04:21 PM

Bi-amping is to some what discredited solution but it does have a certain sound and usefulness. Trace Elliot, Hartke, Peavey and many others offered Bi-amp rigs back in the day using either a 1x15 or 1x18 for lows but you might also consider a 2x15 for your lows.
The down side of a Bi-amp set up, aside from size and weight, is you need a good deal of space for the sound to develop so it's not a good solution for close monitoring and it has a long throw and may interfere with the PA system. You will need to be 15-20 feet from your rig.
The practice of Bi-amping is not so common these days due to better speaker and amplifier designs but you will still see some touring or audiophile players using a Bi-amp set up: Anthony Jackson, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Gordon come to mind all using Meyer Systems rigs.

will33 · #20 07-28-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbrad

Bi-amping is to some what discredited solution but it does have a certain sound and usefulness. Trace Elliot, Hartke, Peavey and many others offered Bi-amp rigs back in the day using either a 1x15 or 1x18 for lows but you might also consider a 2x15 for your lows.
The down side of a Bi-amp set up, aside from size and weight, is you need a good deal of space for the sound to develop so it's not a good solution for close monitoring and it has a long throw and may interfere with the PA system. You will need to be 15-20 feet from your rig.
The practice of Bi-amping is not so common these days due to better speaker and amplifier designs but you will still see some touring or audiophile players using a Bi-amp set up: Anthony Jackson, Jimmy Johnson, Mike Gordon come to mind all using Meyer Systems rigs.

You don't need any distance for sound to develop, if you did, headphones wouldn't work.