Is biamping making a comeback?

[Standalone]

Greenboy's fEarful cabs, Sundogue's 10/6, Bill Fitzmaurice setups -- they all seem ideal for my GK800RB, which though beloved, seemed somewhat outdated since I acquired it a few years ago. Now even my old Peavey would see applications with these cabs!

[zac2944]

Originally Posted by Standalone

Greenboy's fEarful cabs, Sundogue's 10/6, Bill Fitzmaurice setups -- they all seem ideal for my GK800RB, which though beloved, seemed somewhat outdated since I acquired it a few years ago. Now even my old Peavey would see applications with these cabs!

I don't ever remember it being very popular, but I would love to see a micro amp with a dsp biamp feature. Adjustable crossover points and slope. That's would be all right indeed.

Back in the 90s I use a carvin pre and power amp that was biampable, but I didnt have a cab that could utilize it so I fan in full mode. My gk amps had fixed biamping too, but I never had a cab that worked with them.

[Standalone]

in my mind, biamping = heavy, but with these fEarful and BFM designs, there really is a light option for cabs. You're exactly right to look towards a biamp capable featherweight amp to match.

My NeoX 212 really doesn't leave much of anything to be desired. It's a great full range cab. But I'd like to branch out and see what horn loading is about, and find out whether mid drivers are my thing.

[brndn123]

No experience with the new cabs, however, I biamped my 1001 with a gk neo and didn't like the tone at all. VERY thin and "tinny" sounding. I think the GK has a lot of....dare I say...warmth hidden within and that for me is where the true magic lies.

But hey, different strokes

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by Standalone

Greenboy's fEarful cabs, Sundogue's 10/6, Bill Fitzmaurice setups -- they all seem ideal for my GK800RB, which though beloved, seemed somewhat outdated since I acquired it a few years ago. Now even my old Peavey would see applications with these cabs!

Best way to amplify multiple speakered cabinets...

Originally Posted by zac2944

I don't ever remember it being very popular, but I would love to see a micro amp with a dsp biamp feature. Adjustable crossover points and slope. That's would be all right indeed.

Back in the 90s I use a carvin pre and power amp that was biampable, but I didnt have a cab that could utilize it so I fan in full mode. My gk amps had fixed biamping too, but I never had a cab that worked with them.

It was fairly popular from the 80's onwards with people after a hi-fi sound, like myself. I went through several large bi and triamped rigs, and my current PA system is biamped, as are most of the best studio monitors in the world, Genelec (larger ones) et al.

Originally Posted by Standalone

in my mind, biamping = heavy, but with these fEarful and BFM designs, there really is a light option for cabs. You're exactly right to look towards a biamp capable featherweight amp to match.

My NeoX 212 really doesn't leave much of anything to be desired. It's a great full range cab. But I'd like to branch out and see what horn loading is about, and find out whether mid drivers are my thing.

A biampable cab would theoretically be LIGHTER than a non-biampable one because there's no crossover in it. Most cabs give you the option, so there's a crossover and a means to bypass it, which adds very very slightly to the weight (the weight of a little bit of wires and some connectors).

Biamping is fabulous if done right - it allows the amplifiers to work in very limited frequency ranges and therefore produce cleaner power, which is always a good thing. When done BADLY, like in MOST bass systems, biamping is horrid, which is why it has gotten a bad rap. My rig from the early 80's was a three way system, with one of these:

http://www.ashly.com/retired/spec-sheets/cs-sc-40.pdf
a mono one of these:
http://www.ashly.com/retired/spec-sheets/cs-sc-77.pdf
and my first compressor:
http://www.ashly.com/retired/spec-sheets/cs-sc-50.pdf

I later got the original Ashly Bass Preamp, which had a two way crossover built in.

Cheers,
Cameron

[Plstrns]

There's a chance because of fEarful/ Nearful cabs, the growing population of pedal pre's, and light PA poweramps with DSP.

The idea of biamping was ahead of it's time in the eighties, now it's a great option.

[seamonkey]

Bi-amping is out - tri-amping is in.

All the self powered cabinets these days will be bi-amped. Then they offer a sub to the compliment. The tops.

For subs - you can overdrive distort and no-one will hear it.
You can blow subs because you just don't hear them straining.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by zac2944

I don't ever remember it being very popular, but I would love to see a micro amp with a dsp biamp feature. Adjustable crossover points and slope. That's would be all right indeed.

A manufacturer could incorporate something like this pretty easily.

I'll do a review on mine soon. Should have the case for it finished in the next two weeks or so.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

For subs - you can overdrive distort and no-one will hear it.
You can blow subs because you just don't hear them straining.

Subs fart out just like all drivers do. Only with folded horn subs do you not hear the farting out, as the folds in the horn are low-pass filters.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Standalone

Greenboy's fEarful cabs, Sundogue's 10/6, Bill Fitzmaurice setups -- they all seem ideal for my GK800RB, which though beloved, seemed somewhat outdated since I acquired it a few years ago. Now even my old Peavey would see applications with these cabs!

Not a simple quiestion. With an 800rb... not so much... power at 8ohms in the lows and highs is about the same (hence too low in the lows and probably too high in the highs), and if I remember right, the crossover freq is fixed (could be wrong there... its been a long time), and probably crossed over too low for the 15/6 type applications.

I guess with the right crossover and power, biamping can work quite well in mid driver loaded cabs, but given the quality of the amazing passive crossovers out there, I wouldn't bother myself.

[Munjibunga]

I've never seen any real need for it in bass amplification. For PA systems, bi- and tri-amping, sure.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by brndn123

No experience with the new cabs, however, I biamped my 1001 with a gk neo and didn't like the tone at all. VERY thin and "tinny" sounding. I think the GK has a lot of....dare I say...warmth hidden within and that for me is where the true magic lies.

But hey, different strokes

If your tone was 'very thin' using the very nice current GK biamp circuit, it was user error. The biamp in these heads and cabs is set to just remove the very top end of the signal (i.e., the upper treble going through the tweeter) from the main signal. This is so that you can crank the amp and get that nice GK grind through the drivers with the main power amp, but also have a separate, clean signal driving the tweeter (tweeters can sound nasty with distortion running through them).

Very cool execution, with the top end crossed over very high with a little 50 watt amp, and then the vast majority of the signal running full range at big power.

There is no way this circuit would make anything sound 'thin' unless you had the upper and lower frequency volume controls set strangely, or had the amp or cab not in 'biamp' mode.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I've never seen any real need for it in bass amplification. For PA systems, bi- and tri-amping, sure.

Hey Munj,

With these current batch of mid driver loaded cabs, there is definitely an advantage IF DONE RIGHT, and that is a big if. I'm with you... I wouldn't bother myself. However, some of the two and three way mid driver cabs (like the LDS versions) have a passive crossover standard, and then inputs that can be used to bypass the crossover and biamp.

And, per my post above, the current GK biamp design is quite slick for those who like distortion in their tone, but still want a full range tone all the way up to the upper treble.

[Standalone]

Originally Posted by KJung

Not a simple quiestion. With an 800rb... not so much... power at 8ohms in the lows and highs is about the same (hence too low in the lows and probably too high in the highs), and if I remember right, the crossover freq is fixed (could be wrong there... its been a long time), and probably crossed over too low for the 15/6 type applications.

I guess with the right crossover and power, biamping can work quite well in mid driver loaded cabs, but given the quality of the amazing passive crossovers out there, I wouldn't bother myself.

I'm not experienced with their use, but from what I've read, 300/100 seems to be the right amount of wattage for a sensitive horn loaded setup.

The 800RB does have adjustable frequency on its crossover.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by KJung

Hey Munj,

With these current batch of mid driver loaded cabs, there is definitely an advantage IF DONE RIGHT, and that is a big if. I'm with you... I wouldn't bother myself. However, some of the two and three way mid driver cabs (like the LDS versions) have a passive crossover standard, and then inputs that can be used to bypass the crossover and biamp.

And, per my post above, the current GK biamp design is quite slick for those who like distortion in their tone, but still want a full range tone all the way up to the upper treble.

Perhaps but, hey ... I've got my AE212 now. I don't need no steenkeeng bi-amped cabs. (Thanks to you.)

[DJ Bebop]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

A manufacturer could incorporate something like this pretty easily.

I'll do a review on mine soon. Should have the case for it finished in the next two weeks or so.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Standalone

I'm not experienced with their use, but from what I've read, 300/100 seems to be the right amount of wattage for a sensitive horn loaded setup.

The 800RB does have adjustable frequency on its crossover.

Cool on the frequency control..... I couldn't remember, since I never ran mine in biamp mode. +1 that will be fun to mess around with if you have a cab that can benefit.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Perhaps but, hey ... I've got my AE212 now. I don't need no steenkeeng bi-amped cabs. (Thanks to you.)

I'm with you there personally!

[alexclaber]

Biamping is great conceptually. The problem is that for it to work well the amp and cab need to be designed as a system, or the amp needs a lot of adjustability (which in 99% of cases will lead to user error issues) to be set up correctly for each cab. And incorrect use of biamping is an excellent way to toast higher frequency drivers.

[synaesthesia]

I bi amp, triamp or quad amp depending on size of gig and love it. However, I can see issues for the general populace in bassdom and I agree for 99% of players there is no point. I prefer electronic crossovers and separate power amps or amp sections to passive crossovers. I have better control over my kit and can vary the balance for different flavours.

But multiband amplification for bassplayers? No point really, most seem to think that dual amping IS multiband amping, and then there is the 4X10 + 1X 15 crowd, and there are also no specific commercial products marketed to bassdom as proper higher band speaker cabinets. A PA top could be used, but that is where bass players give in to the guitarists need for stage kit to 'look right'.

One of my gigging kits is an alembic f1-X, with bi amp outs into a stereo Carver power amp, and it drives a 1X 15 in one box and another box with 4 X 5" in a vertical array, the top box is fixed to the 1X 15 with a pole; sounds the bees kness but 'rock and roll look' it is not, it is not even 'jazz look' but that is what I play. I'd turn up in a Hilton hotel gig using this next to a pianist no question. The EUB helps deflect the visual attention away from the strange looking amp set up though.