Big E Speakers

[mntngrown]

Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins

Played another gig tonight, not as big as the past couple nights, more like 750-1000 seat theater on a wooden stage, but pretty good acoustics actually. Tonight was the best sound I think I've gotten with the Big E so far. It really reminds me of a 4x10 cab the way it responds, very punchy, you can really feel your notes, but probably wont go as loud, but darn close, I'd say more like a 3x10 cab. I didn't even bother giving our sound engineer a line, I told him he wouldn't need it, and he agreed.

The one thing I notice with this cab, it's very responsive to everything you do to it, I mean it is night and day which way you have it oriented and when you angle it up, even more different. I also found a big difference to how high of an angle I used in how the highs were heard. I had too high of an angle and I wasn't getting the clarity I wanted 25ft out, so I went back, lowered the angle of the cab (I prop the cab up by an empty tc electronic pedal box) and BAM, all the clarity I needed right at the head level of the audience.

Also, just like my fodera basses, if your technique sucks, this cab will let you know it. No hiding behind blooming notes.

So depends on the height of the stage, if any, how much to angle in the horizontal orientation? As little as 2" on a stage, (flat 2x4 piece of wood under the front) but maybe even a 4x4 in a big room with no stage? I know everyone is just starting to experiment. No gigs for me yet
Thanks for all the info Dirt Poor!

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by mntngrown

So depends on the height of the stage, if any, how much to angle in the horizontal orientation? As little as 2" on a stage, (flat 2x4 piece of wood under the front) but maybe even a 4x4 in a big room with no stage? I know everyone is just starting to experiment. No gigs for me yet
Thanks for all the info Dirt Poor!

got to run my 4x8 at rehearsal tonight ( also A/B'd it earlier in the day with a new Fender 8/10 neo cab ) ( will post more about that in the morning )

i placed a 2x4 under the rubber feet & was running my new Fender Super Bassman, & the tone & clarity is just incredible

[DirtPoorRobins]

Haha, I don't know if I'd get that crazy with it, but I did notice a difference in the highs depending on how steep of an angle I had the cab at, how much a difference is probably different to everyone listening, and as soon as the band started playing it was a moot point. I'm just very particular about my highs and on this stage I was kind of shooting over head level at the immediate front of the stage. Again, don't get hung up on it, I just wanted to point out how many different tones I hear from this cab by changing it physically.

[christw]

I'm interested in hearing how the Super Bassman plays with the 4 x 8, especially with it's 300w available. I'm hoping my Bassman 300 Pro will play nice with the 2 x 6's for both electric and upright. ...One rig to end all rigs...

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by christw

I'm interested in hearing how the Super Bassman plays with the 4 x 8, especially with it's 300w available. I'm hoping my Bassman 300 Pro will play nice with the 2 x 6's for both electric and upright. ...One rig to end all rigs...

this cab has it's own voice, it's not harsh or in your face like a lot of the new super cabs are, it's not overwhelming, it sounds incredibly good at lower volumes, very present & articulate & you can really hear the nuance of your bass/playing style.

& when you start kicking the volume up, it just seems to expand & as it gets louder, it gets bigger, deeper & fuller without losing any nuance, & not boomy in any way

while we were in the middle of a song, i snuck back behind the drummer & hung out in the corner, about 10ft to the left of the cab & the dispersion of this cab is unreal

your 300Pro is gonna sound killer thru the 6's

[lelandcrooks]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dog

& when you start kicking the volume up, it just seems to expand & as it gets louder, it gets bigger, deeper & fuller without losing any nuance, & not boomy in any way

Testing and my ears confirm this. At 1w1m the ports are fully engaged, and it's output is matching the output off the face of the drivers, full range. As you increase the power, port output increases. I have not figured out what the curve is yet. It's like you have another pair of drivers in the cab.

But you can hear the soundfield bloom larger and larger as you add more power. I have spent a lot of time just listening to these. Partly because I'll turn on some music in the shop and just get captured, end up sitting down and listening. Like I have time for that. I now just turn on NPR, to keep that from happening.

To you guys who have these coming, give them some time and effort when you get them. You really have to rethink how you use a cab. Most of the rules are out the door. Spend a lot of time playing with eq, power, and just understanding what it does. You can expect great sound right off the bat, but with some effort to understand, you'll see why we who are involved are so excited.

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by lelandcrooks

Testing and my ears confirm this. At 1w1m the ports are fully engaged, and it's output is matching the output off the face of the drivers, full range. As you increase the power, port output increases. I have not figured out what the curve is yet. It's like you have another pair of drivers in the cab.

But you can hear the soundfield bloom larger and larger as you add more power. I have spent a lot of time just listening to these. Partly because I'll turn on some music in the shop and just get captured, end up sitting down and listening. Like I have time for that. I now just turn on NPR, to keep that from happening.

To you guys who have these coming, give them some time and effort when you get them. You really have to rethink how you use a cab. Most of the rules are out the door. Spend a lot of time playing with eq, power, and just understanding what it does. You can expect great sound right off the bat, but with some effort to understand, you'll see why we who are involved are so excited.

well i'll tell ya, you guys are batting a thousand with this new technology, as this cab is the most musically voiced cab that i've ever heard



i had a chance to A/B the 4x8 with a new Fender 810 neo cab in a brick & mortar music shop yesterday ( the owner is a friend & i've been telling him about the 4x8 since i've ordered it )
we set both cabs up in the store & i plugged the super bassman into the 810 first & it sounded very good at a moderate volume, as we started adding the volume, everything seemed to just be intensified as if you could almost see the sound pressure building & blaring at high levels. it was a very directional tone coming out of the cab, the dispersion was typical for the design, sounds best when stand directly in front of the cab, but take three ( well, maybe not three, but five definitely ) steps to the left, & it all drops out. we didn't dime the head/ cab but we were pushing the 6550's pretty good, & the cab was loud & intense, that would be my best description

then we plugged in the 4x8

brought it up to a moderate level & the whole experience & perception changed. as i said earlier, the cab has a voice all it's own, & that voice carries & reproduces bass notes/tones quite well, exceptionally well actually. i had my wireless on & we went around to different locations in the room & the tone with all the lows/mids/highs were present EVERYWHERE IN THE ROOM, the dispersion is INCREDIBLE ( the dispersion that i saw/heard in your vids are what sold me on this cab, & prompted me to place an order, so glad i did as it does not disappoint )
we rolled up the volume & the cab/voice/tone just expanded & got bigger/larger & as we took it up to about the same volume as the 810 before, the cab handled it with no problem whatsoever, but gone was the intensity, sound pressure, of the typical bass cab, & the tone /voice was so present & musical & natural, it's quite an experience, my friend REALLY LIKED this cab, ( so do i )

might place an order for a 4x6 & have the small/large cab thing covered, as i have found my sound

[Mike Arnopol]

So glad you're happy with it. Man---I love your photo's!

[Mike Arnopol]

In response to a few pm's

Yes, the 4 x 8 oem is heavy. I think it's currently about 78#. Nor Cal's cab is a bit different from mountain grown's. I was able to find a neo horn driver that was lighter and I only had to use 2 instead of 4. On mountaingrown's we were paranoid about power handling and used 4 compression drivers. So about a 3# weight savings on the newest cabs.

So--in comparing volume of air displaced

The oem 4 x 8 moves about 1700 cc's of air

an SVT is about 1120

a 2 x 15 with 3015 lf's is about 1700

a 4 x 8 with the Faital's does about 1200 to 1300

The 4 x 8 with the Faitals is only about 63#

If someone wants the Faitals---this cabs is voiced more similarly to an SVT but with the same hifi mids and highs as all Big E's. Well---actually the Faital 4 x 8 doesn't sound like an SVT but has a more forward midrange and does not extend as low as the OEM's. I think that it's a great 4 string cab. It will do 5 strings---just not as huge or extended as the OEM's. The OEM's are smoother, the Faitals have more bark. I will include an Fdeck HPF with the Faital based cabs---it extends the dynamic range by a lot.

[MrCool84]

Norcal, ur rig looks soo pimp. just the pics alone look like a force to be reckoned with. Your tone/sound reviews really intrigue me. Wow i wish money grew on trees. i currently run a 100t and 610 neo which i absolutely love but also i dig new designs that defy the norm/standard and that 4x6 seems to be in that category. Your description was very well written, i think. Thamks! subscribed

[Mike Arnopol]

I'm thinking of making a tilt wedge that stores in the port---in other words---same angle as the port---maybe use felt or something on a wooden wedge.

I could have easily used the little fold up tilback that I use on other cabs but I'm too worried about vibration noise.

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by MrCool84

Norcal, ur rig looks soo pimp. just the pics alone look like a force to be reckoned with. Your tone/sound reviews really intrigue me. Wow i wish money grew on trees. i currently run a 100t and 610 neo which i absolutely love but also i dig new designs that defy the norm/standard and that 4x6 seems to be in that category. Your description was very well written, i think. Thamks! subscribed

thanks, ( i worked my ass off for this gear ). it's not easy ( for me anyways ) to describe & convey to others something that you can't see or touch, & it's harder yet to describe something that is the best of the best,( imo, ime ) without just throwing a bunch of overly used adjectives ( awesome, killer, incredible, ) at it, which imo, doesn't do it justice either

i was running a 100T when i first ordered this cab from Mike & fully intended to run the two together. the 100T would push this 4x8 very nicely ( along with the help of Fdeck's HPF for added headroom & dynamic range ), but the 4x6 would probably be a better match & easier load in/out to boot @ 37'ish lbs

[thumbknuckle]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

In response to a few pm's

Yes, the 4 x 8 oem is heavy. I think it's currently about 78#. Nor Cal's cab is a bit different from mountain grown's. I was able to find a neo horn driver that was lighter and I only had to use 2 instead of 4. On mountaingrown's we were paranoid about power handling and used 4 compression drivers. So about a 3# weight savings on the newest cabs.

So--in comparing volume of air displaced

The oem 4 x 8 moves about 1700 cc's of air

an SVT is about 1120

a 2 x 15 with 3015 lf's is about 1700

a 4 x 8 with the Faital's does about 1200 to 1300

The number for the Kappalite is right on. I don't know what's in an SVT these days, but that number could be right.

4 Faital 8PR200's displace almost exactly half what you are claiming here.

For your OEM drivers to do what you are claiming they would need to have an xmax over 20mm.

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

I'm thinking of making a tilt wedge that stores in the port---in other words---same angle as the port---maybe use felt or something on a wooden wedge.

I could have easily used the little fold up tilback that I use on other cabs but I'm too worried about vibration noise.

i went to McMaster Carr's website & ordered up two 3' lengths of black UHMW plastic that i'm going to put on the bottom for skid rails so i can just tip the cab & slide it up/down stairs, or elevated stages easily without doing the dead lift thing

the cab isn't flyweight that's so en vogue these days, but with the handles on all 4 corners ( great idea btw ) it's very manageable

if you decide to do a wedge that stores in the port area when not in use ( another great idea ) you can attach it with 3m's dual lock fasteners, which so surpasses velcro in every aspect. you can find it at target under a generic namebrand much cheaper, ( i actually have my Genz 9.0 mounted with the dual lock on a rack shelf in my rack case in the photos,, this stuff is bulletproof )

[mntngrown]

Originally Posted by NorCal Dog

i went to McMaster Carr's website & ordered up two 3' lengths of black UHMW plastic that i'm going to put on the bottom for skid rails so i can just tip the cab & slide it up/down stairs, or elevated stages easily without doing the dead lift thing

the cab isn't flyweight that's so en vogue these days, but with the handles on all 4 corners ( great idea btw ) it's very manageable

if you decide to do a wedge that stores in the port area when not in use ( another great idea ) you can attach it with 3m's dual lock fasteners, which so surpasses velcro in every aspect. you can find it at target under a generic namebrand much cheaper, ( i actually have my Genz 9.0 mounted with the dual lock on a rack shelf in my rack case in the photos,, this stuff is bulletproof )

Good call on the rails. Mine are in place on the top, (just my choice), and those rails are plenty tough, as I have abused them on my 1515/66 boxes, and they don't mind.

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by thumbknuckle

The number for the Kappalite is right on. I don't know what's in an SVT these days, but that number could be right.

4 Faital 8PR200's displace almost exactly half what you are claiming here.

For your OEM drivers to do what you are claiming they would need to have an xmax over 20mm.

Exactly. The vortex combines the back wave with the front. Actually I'm being conservative. Tomand Steve of Big E say that you can figure 2.5 x the drivers vd.

So---4 8pr's will do about 1200cc's. That's double.

The Oem's have an xmax of almost 9mm. The way Eminence figures their xmax is different than the Italian manufacturers. The claimed xmax of the 8PR200 is 8.15mm. In an Eminence that would be the equivalent of a 6mm xmax.

So---the sd of the oem 8 is .02141. The xmax is 8.72mm.
that yields a vd of 188.7 cc's for one driver. If you've been listening to the players experiences the Big E's do what I say as far as output vs. drivers. So if we figure 188.7 x 8 we get about 1500 cc's. That is conservative. If you figure 2.5 then we get near 1900 cc's. so I split the difference at 1700 cc's.

The guys that own the cabinets can tell you---they go WAY louder and especially WAY deeper than what you would expect from the drivers. My experience---I haven't gone loud enough to compare the 4 x 8 to a dual 3015lf at absolute top volume but I've gotten close. I've got a lot of 3015LF based cabs floating through here. What I can say definitely is that they really feel tighter, deeper and more focused in the low end.

[Mike Arnopol]

one more thing---I think that a 2 x 8 with the OEM's will edge out a 4 x 6 by a little bit. (in terms of absolute volume)

One thing that I'm happy with. The 2 x 8 and 4 x 6 sound different. The 2 x 8 (and 4 x 8) are a bit flatter through the low end. The tonal balance is more similar to the better hifi bass cabs out there. But with the Big E tonal presentation and dispersion.

The 6.5" based cabs are a bit warmer and a slight bit "thicker" in the mid to upper bass. I'm a pizzicato funk guy. Paul Jackson is my hero. So I really like the fact that my G string sounds bigger and thicker. It's a bit much for Dirtpoor and he eq's it down a bit.

So---the Faitals will give the most "cut" but aren't at all edgey.They don't go as low or loud, but as I stated, they'll keep up with an SVT. (it is advisable to use the HPF with the Faitals for max volume)
The oem 8's are probably the most neutral

the 6.5's are a bit warmer---they can keep up with the OEM 8's as far as low end.

[DirtPoorRobins]

Gig tonight in my crappy bar corner, jazz trio, upright, piano, sax. Since I was in a tight corner (bass trap from ****) I took a ton of my lows out, and guess what, it still sounded fat and smooth. That is a great quality of this cab that I like with upright. I can pull the lows down quite far actually, and it still sounds full, my other cabs just sound wimpy and harsh when I pull the low end out. I'd love to try a 2x8 sometime to get a nice comparison. And mike is right, these cabs take wonderfully to eq.

[NorCal Dog]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

one more thing---I think that a 2 x 8 with the OEM's will edge out a 4 x 6 by a little bit. (in terms of absolute volume)

One thing that I'm happy with. The 2 x 8 and 4 x 6 sound different. The 2 x 8 (and 4 x 8) are a bit flatter through the low end. The tonal balance is more similar to the better hifi bass cabs out there. But with the Big E tonal presentation and dispersion.

The 6.5" based cabs are a bit warmer and a slight bit "thicker" in the mid to upper bass. I'm a pizzicato funk guy. Paul Jackson is my hero. So I really like the fact that my G string sounds bigger and thicker. It's a bit much for Dirtpoor and he eq's it down a bit.

So---the Faitals will give the most "cut" but aren't at all edgey.They don't go as low or loud, but as I stated, they'll keep up with an SVT. (it is advisable to use the HPF with the Faitals for max volume)
The oem 8's are probably the most neutral

the 6.5's are a bit warmer---they can keep up with the OEM 8's as far as low end.

Mike,, what are the sizes & weights of the 2x8 & the 4x6 again ?

[DirtPoorRobins]

Off to a double header tonight, first stop is upright piano duo, second stop is electric with a folk/country group. First night with fdeck 3 hpf and big e, im interested to see what happens, should be great!