Big E Speakers

[mntngrown]

Sold at Barnes and Noble, and other fine retail outlets
English Grammar in Use with Answers: A Self-Study Reference and Practice Book for Intermediate Students of English

[makohund]

Having read it, I find the definition of "asses handed to them" that I am accustomed to differs greatly from that just used by Mr Vinny D.

[Mike Arnopol]

Oh--I did read that. We were expecting that kind of response. Fortunately the bass players here (well some of them) are more open minded. If you bothered to read through this thread you'll see a lot of well-respected players that have tried these speakers. And some have bought them. The typical response is "they can't really do this!"

My initial opinions on the Big E stuff was not at all open minded. But one can express his opinions until he's blue in the face---until you actually try one it's just surmisals.

Duke LeJeaune is one of the most respected speaker designers for bass and home hifi. Ask him.

I wouldn't necessarily describe things the same way as the designers, but it really is something VERY NEW. What they say is accurate as far as what is happening. I happen to like scifi type descriptions. Here are some things that guys here have experienced listening to Big E's

to the mods---I think I'm justified in stating these qualities as the previous comments described these as "snake oil"

The sound changes very little in comparison with other speakers as far as location and distance. You can stand directly on the side of the cab and hear yourself fine. You can walk 20 feet away with much less volume drop than other speakers.

They excite room resonances much less than other speakers. Guys talk about how they used them to great success in rooms where they previously "couldn't get a sound"

The bass response has incredible immediacy---the notes "pop" out

The usable low end of the speakers dips into the 30's and is very taut and defined. Some speaker manufacturers claim "usable" response down there but they're talking about -10db. We're talking -3db.

The acoustic output is 2.5 times the driver. This is due to the contribution of the vortex. That is how a 4 x 6.5" cab can keep up dynamically with a 15" or 410 cab. Ask the guys who tried them.

We are able to get that low end extension and volume by using lower efficiency custom woofers. Due to the contribution of the vortex, at power, the efficiency is comparable to a 97 db speaker. So, a 4 x 6.5 cab with 89 db efficiency woofers plays the same volume, at the same power, as a 97db speaker.

There has not been anyone here that have tried these speakers that have not experienced this. I'm not saying that these are the "best" speakers out there. There are a lot of great speakers. These just do some incredibly cool things that have allowed me to enjoy the playing experience more. And I'm a jaded old fart!

[mntngrown]

This and the previous thread were started by a TB member who was interested in a new product he heard about, and he linked us to a youtube vid. Mike eventually began answering questions since he was on the youtube vid. Nobody has been pimping these cabs. I had to ask Mike if they were even for sale yet. Interested parties carry on with your inquiries, owners continue with your personal gig experience. Conspiracy theorists go back to contrails or the Warren commission etc. ad nauseum

[spiritbass]

Thanks Vinny, I read the thread. It reminded me of certain historic parallels. When explorers first embarked to circumnavigate the world in little wooden ships, the scoffers proclaimed that they would sail off the edge of the world. I believe it was Copernicus that was excommunicated by the church when he pointed out that the earth circled the sun instead of the other way around as the rest of humanity believed at the time. Empirical evidence has proven the scoffers to be completely and totally wrong in these two instances. New ground is the hardest to break and there will always be scoffers. I'll be giving my testimony on the performance of manipulated vortex waveguide technology after I have gathered my own evidence.

[mntngrown]

Very diplomatically phrased, and without any controversial edge. Thanks for the lesson.

[spiritbass]

Originally Posted by mntngrown

Very diplomatically phrased, and without any controversial edge. Thanks for the lesson.

Thank you. I would also commend Michael on his level-headed and reasoned response.

[Mike Arnopol]

You know---what I really enjoy in this new speaker biz is all of the nice, interesting people I have the opportunity to talk to.

Bass players are an odd bunch--in a good way

you guys seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwAYUUJ28UU

[nutdog]

Copernicus...


Columbus...


Crooks.

[bb03]

Originally Posted by Vinny D

For a good laugh take a look over on a *pro* sound forum were the magicians tried selling there snake oil of cabinets....too put it nicely, they got their *sses handed to them.
Only on Talkbass

It feels good wanting someone to fail, doesn't it.

I still can't believe that not one of the "measurement" guys, who so desperately want the Big E claims disproved, haven't stepped up and bought one from Mike. I mean, talk about a quick way to become a hero!

[DirtPoorRobins]

Bass players have always been way more open minded when it comes to gear than any other musician for some reason. The reward: sweet new gear and cabs that weigh 1/3 the weight than they did 10 years ago and sound better and louder. My poor guitar friends are still lugging around 80lb 12" combo amps....

[DirtPoorRobins]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

The acoustic output is 2.5 times the driver. This is due to the contribution of the vortex. That is how a 4 x 6.5" cab can keep up dynamically with a 15" or 410 cab. Ask the guys who tried them.

Yeah, no lie, my 46 keeps up with my 410 but it carries the room way better, not that huge drop off like a 410 does about 20ft in front of the cab.

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

You know---what I really enjoy in this new speaker biz is all of the nice, interesting people I have the opportunity to talk to.

Bass players are an odd bunch--in a good way

you guys seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwAYUUJ28UU

That was too weird, Mike.

I started the first thread here on these cabs, linking to the vid. (My younger brother actually came across the company while looking into BFM guitar cabs, but that's a different story.) I think Mike was a bit put out by it, honestly, as he wasn't expecting the cabs to go "public" that soon. I also stopped by Mike's place and played the cabs (1st generation designs and prototypes, I think). It was only a living-room test, but we did play at length and compared the cabs with some other designs (Crazy 8s and 88s and some 12 and 15-loaded Thunderchild cabs). There were things to like about each cab we heard -- I don't think any of them was the best at everything -- but, overall, I was as impressed by those cabs as I have been by any bass cab, ever. The "pop" of the notes (subjective but there) is a big reason -- it made playing the electric bass feel more like playing an acoustic instrument. I have no idea how well they'd function as studio monitors, but for a bass cab (where the role is arguably as much sound production as it is reproduction) I haven't tried anything I've liked better.

When I finally get around to revamping my rig and give the newer stuff a listen, I will refine or revise my impression, but they were pretty remarkable bass cabs.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

I hope this is ok to mention---people have been asking

We are offering a new version of the 46

The voicing is very different than the current 46---I'll be offering both.

The new one is 26 x 15 1/2 x 13. Weight about the same.

The original 46 has a very warm voicing in the bass. But for some it can be a bit thick in the mid to upper bass. We manipulated the vortex a bit and the new 46 extends a bit lower (like that was really necessary) but the bass is very flat through the mid and upper bass. For the highs, I switched to 2 Ciare tweeters crossfiring.More dough for me.It has a bit of a rising response above 8khz---just adds a bit of "air" and definition. I REALLY like the highs with the Ciare. I think that Meyer Sound is using it in some of their high end boxes.

So the old one is better for a more traditional 60's and 70's type of warmth. The new one is warm but more modern and detailed. And flatter.

Mike, which iteration would you expect to be better for doublers?

[mntngrown]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

You know---what I really enjoy in this new speaker biz is all of the nice, interesting people I have the opportunity to talk to.

Bass players are an odd bunch--in a good way

you guys seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwAYUUJ28UU

Too funny!
Recently I have just thanked the ladies when they compliment my guitar playing! Well it is a bass guitar after all My guitar god laughs when someone tells him he played good bass too. I just watch who is playing the note, or pounding the kick drum that the hips and a-- sway shake or shimmy to. Then I smile

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Mike, which iteration would you expect to be better for doublers?

Man---haven't played the new one on upright. I'll do it this week and get back to you. I'll tell you---the "thicker" qualities of the first generation have a nice symbiotic relationship with upright

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by MarkA

That was too weird, Mike.

I started the first thread here on these cabs, linking to the vid. (My younger brother actually came across the company while looking into BFM guitar cabs, but that's a different story.) I think Mike was a bit put out by it, honestly, as he wasn't expecting the cabs to go "public" that soon. I also stopped by Mike's place and played the cabs (1st generation designs and prototypes, I think). It was only a living-room test, but we did play at length and compared the cabs with some other designs (Crazy 8s and 88s and some 12 and 15-loaded Thunderchild cabs). There were things to like about each cab we heard -- I don't think any of them was the best at everything -- but, overall, I was as impressed by those cabs as I have been by any bass cab, ever. The "pop" of the notes (subjective but there) is a big reason -- it made playing the electric bass feel more like playing an acoustic instrument. I have no idea how well they'd function as studio monitors, but for a bass cab (where the role is arguably as much sound production as it is reproduction) I haven't tried anything I've liked better.

When I finally get around to revamping my rig and give the newer stuff a listen, I will refine or revise my impression, but they were pretty remarkable bass cabs.

Mark---you have to hear them now! There have been around 10 generations of tweeks since then! The stongest point of the Thunderchildren is that they are the flattest bass cabinets on the planet. With Duke's assistance---the Big E's are now approaching that realm.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by DirtPoorRobins

Bass players have always been way more open minded when it comes to gear than any other musician for some reason.

According to that other thread, we're not "professional" though. And I beg to differ. Last night I again handed out spectrum plots at my gig so the audience could fully appreciate my tone. After all, who can trust a set of ears?

I also did a Fourier transform of a 12 bar blues and got the changes for Giant Steps but backwards. I think I forgot to carry the one...

[HartDesignsEtc]

Originally Posted by bb03

I still can't believe that not one of the "measurement" guys, who so desperately want the Big E claims disproved, haven't stepped up and bought one from Mike. I mean, talk about a quick way to become a hero!

They don't even have to buy one. They are more than welcome to stop by any of the locations and test/listen for themselves. I have even seen Mike, Tom and Steve, maybe Leland too, offer to loan out cabs for testing and demo. They have no excuse.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Man---haven't played the new one on upright. I'll do it this week and get back to you. I'll tell you---the "thicker" qualities of the first generation have a nice symbiotic relationship with upright

Thanks, Mike. I look forward to your report!