Big E Speakers

[lelandcrooks]

There will be the pa model for sure, I have 8 of them sitting around the shop. I should be able to get a 4x6 bass cab done. Though I also have to make a couple more MinE 25, and would like make a pair of RachE 12's too.

[Vince Klortho]

Please correct me if I am wrong. You will be making the following cabinets for bass guitar (count x size) :

2x5, 4x5, 8x5
2x6, 4x6, 6x6
2x8, 4x8
2x10

Is that right or are there others ?

[spiritbass]

Originally Posted by Vince Klortho

Please correct me if I am wrong. You will be making the following cabinets for bass guitar (count x size) :

4x5, 8x5
4x6
2x8, 4x8
2x10

Is that right or are there others ?

There are also 2x5 & 2x6 cabs available.

[shrigg]

6x5 and 6x6 can be made too I believe.

[mbelue]

Any new speaker technology intrigues me but, I'm starting to get lost. I'm used to thinking in simple 10's, 12's, 15's math. How do these line up volume-wise. Which one is in the 112 volume range? Seems like there are three or four. Which one is in the 810 range? New technology is great but its hard enough comparing normal bass cabs in spl. Which cab for absurd volume? Like "damn the PA I'll play this stadium myself"?

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by mbelue

Any new speaker technology intrigues me but, I'm starting to get lost. I'm used to thinking in simple 10's, 12's, 15's math. How do these line up volume-wise. Which one is in the 112 volume range? Seems like there are three or four. Which one is in the 810 range? New technology is great but its hard enough comparing normal bass cabs in spl. Which cab for absurd volume? Like "damn the PA I'll play this stadium myself"?

I think I know which Big E cabs would accomplish your goals but it will be much more fun to hear Mike's answers to this question...

[nutdog]

Please accept this post as constructive criticism. I've been to the big E facebook, joined the forum and looked at speaker hardware. The product info is either non-existent or disorganized and inadequate to make any kind of evaluation for a particular application. A table listing product, dimensions, specs, application and perhaps a performance comparison to mainline cabs would simplify things and save time for the builders and potential customers. Price list wouldn't hurt.

See, I'm smiling when I say that. Inquiring minds want to know.

[shrigg]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Please accept this post as constructive criticism. I've been to the big E facebook, joined the forum and looked at speaker hardware. The product info is either non-existent or disorganized and inadequate to make any kind of evaluation for a particular application. A table listing product, dimensions, specs, application and perhaps a performance comparison to mainline cabs would simplify things and save time for the builders and potential customers. Price list wouldn't hurt.

See, I'm smiling when I say that. Inquiring minds want to know.

Remember these are brand new to market and this is a very small company, information is forthcoming to be sure.

[nutdog]

I hope you're not seriously expecting me to be patient.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Please accept this post as constructive criticism. I've been to the big E facebook, joined the forum and looked at speaker hardware. The product info is either non-existent or disorganized and inadequate to make any kind of evaluation for a particular application. A table listing product, dimensions, specs, application and perhaps a performance comparison to mainline cabs would simplify things and save time for the builders and potential customers. Price list wouldn't hurt.

See, I'm smiling when I say that. Inquiring minds want to know.

A simple email or call to Mike A. will answer all your questions. If you're serious, problem solved. If you just want to kick tires, then that patience thing comes into play.

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by mbelue

Any new speaker technology intrigues me but, I'm starting to get lost. I'm used to thinking in simple 10's, 12's, 15's math. How do these line up volume-wise. Which one is in the 112 volume range? Seems like there are three or four. Which one is in the 810 range? New technology is great but its hard enough comparing normal bass cabs in spl. Which cab for absurd volume? Like "damn the PA I'll play this stadium myself"?

Ok again

To get a reasonable starting point we go by the air volume displaced by the speaker. With conventional speakers it's the area of the cone times excursion max.

With the Big E due to the contribution of the rear wave you multiply by 2.5. To be a bit more conservative let's say 2.25

the 5" woofer has a Vd of 42cc's. That's how much air it can move. So times 2.25=94.5cc's

The 6 winds up being 165cc's

The 8 is a whopping 419cc's.


NOW--

a Kappalite 3012lf 12" woofer is 496

A Kappatile 3015lf 15" is a crazy 844

A Deltalite 10" (pretty much as big as you'll see in a 10) is only 147

So--an 8x10 cab will be around 1176 cc's

A super 12 cab is about 496

A super 15 cab is 844

A 210 is 294

A 410 is 588


OK to compare

a 45 (4x5) is 378

a 65 is 567

an 85 is 756

a 26 (2x6.5) is 330

a 46 is 660

a 66 is 990

a 28 is 838

a 48 is 1676


So to compete with a 410 you have

a 65

a 46


to compete with a super 12

a 65

a 46 is a lot louder


to compete with a super 15

an 85 will do it--I've had them head to head if you go with the 2.5 ratio it's 840cc's

a 28

the 46 comes close---again when you go with 2.5 it comes out to 733


to compete with a 610

a 28

a 66 will beat it

an 85 will be very close


to compete with an 810

two 65's

two 46's

a 48 will beat it pretty easily


to compete with a 212

a 66

a 28 will come close


to compete with a 215

a 48

two 46's are pretty close

these have proved pretty close to accurate in my experience. As far as the 10's---most are within these parameters. A small few 10" cabs use custom oem drivers that have Vd's of more than 147cc's. Not most, though.

[shrigg]

Are the aforementioned 212 and 215's of the super variety? If so, how would a traditional 212 or 215 match up to the Big E line?

[3rdcurve]

There has been alot of talk of output relative to other cabs, but not so much on the tone. Would I be wrong to assume that these are in the same tonal range as the Thunderchildren and fearfuls? (I.E. even and studio monitor/PA like)

I have seen some descriptions as being "punchy" which really gets my attention. The 15PR400 loaded 2x15 of mine had great tone but wasn't inherently punchy - more relaxed - much how I assume the fearful and TC cabs are. I am currently looking to get back some of the tight/punchiness of the Bagends and SVT810 that I used to run.

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by nostatic

A simple email or call to Mike A. will answer all your questions. If you're serious, problem solved. If you just want to kick tires, then that patience thing comes into play.

I'm serious about a small PA but I don't have enough info to know if I'm serious about big E. There is a website, a facebook page and a forum. I've been to each and after a good bit of reading I'm still left with the question, "what exactly is for sale?". It would take more than a simple email to get a complete answer.

Mike has said repeatedly he's too busy to do a webpage so I guess it's not a big deal.

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Ok again

Answering frequently asked questions frequently is certainly one way of doing it.

[mbelue]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Ok again...

I understand the frustration with repeating yourself, and I thank you for doing so.
I have a related query concerning SPL and the BigE's, how much wattage does one need before you begin to take advantage of the "vortex" technology and experience perceivable gain in volume as compared to "normal" bass cabs.

Is there a rough percentage of total wattage you can expect the "vortex" to contribute?

I have a super 12 and I love it but until I throw the megawatts at it, there isn't much benefit in spl. Clarity, extension yeah, not volume.

I guess I'm asking about efficiency. Do the larger driver cabs deliver more volume with lower wattage sources like a tube head?
Or is that reserved for the 6 and 8 driver cabs?
Or are none of them suited for legacy amps?

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by 3rdcurve

There has been alot of talk of output relative to other cabs, but not so much on the tone. Would I be wrong to assume that these are in the same tonal range as the Thunderchildren and fearfuls? (I.E. even and studio monitor/PA like)

I have seen some descriptions as being "punchy" which really gets my attention. The 15PR400 loaded 2x15 of mine had great tone but wasn't inherently punchy - more relaxed - much how I assume the fearful and TC cabs are. I am currently looking to get back some of the tight/punchiness of the Bagends and SVT810 that I used to run.

The tone is similar. I'd say that the 5" cabs are voiced more like the Thunderchild. Very neutral.

The 6 and 8 based cabs are what I would say is in between the Thunderchild and Fearless/Fearful. The Fearfuls are a bit mid-forward for my taste but they have a nice rising high end which works really well live. So with the 6's and 8's more like a great PA type of high end--but no midrange wank. The 5's more like the balance of a really nice home hifi.

ALL of the Big E's are super punchy. My problem with the super 12's and 15's is that the low end is really powerful but a bit diffuse for my taste. The Big E's really sound like the sound is jumping out of the speaker. Super immediate sound. I know that this sounds like some stupid hype--but it's the only way I know to describe it.

Problem in the past---you want huge lows---hard to get punchy. You want punchy---hard to get a big low end.

The Big E's do both.

oh--also

The 15pr400 is a lovely sounding speaker. But it is a softer sounding low end. More romantic sounding I think. I think of a B15 with low end and a bit more highs.

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by nutdog

I'm serious about a small PA but I don't have enough info to know if I'm serious about big E. There is a website, a facebook page and a forum. I've been to each and after a good bit of reading I'm still left with the question, "what exactly is for sale?". It would take more than a simple email to get a complete answer.

Mike has said repeatedly he's too busy to do a webpage so I guess it's not a big deal.



Answering frequently asked questions frequently is certainly one way of doing it.

Trust me---I know it's not the epitome of professionalism here.I/we're working on it. If I could just find a competent helper I'd work on the web page. At this point I recommend people to give me a call.

My phone is 224 628 6162

The bass cabs and pa cabs really overlap a lot. The pa cabs are about an inch smaller but the drivers are the same. Guys are already buying cabs to do double duty as far as bass/pa cabs.

[mbelue]

Originally Posted by mbelue

I understand the frustration with repeating yourself, and I thank you for doing so.
I have a related query concerning SPL and the BigE's, how much wattage does one need before you begin to take advantage of the "vortex" technology and experience perceivable gain in volume as compared to "normal" bass cabs.

Is there a rough percentage of total wattage you can expect the "vortex" to contribute?

I have a super 12 and I love it but until I throw the megawatts at it, there isn't much benefit in spl. Clarity, extension yeah, not volume.

I guess I'm asking about efficiency. Do the larger driver cabs deliver more volume with lower wattage sources like a tube head?
Or is that reserved for the 6 and 8 driver cabs?
Or are none of them suited for legacy amps?

All the quotes in that really make it sound like I'm trolling, sorry guys, just trying to learn here....

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by shrigg

Are the aforementioned 212 and 215's of the super variety? If so, how would a traditional 212 or 215 match up to the Big E line?

It's funny---just checked out what is more typically used in bass cabs.

The Deltalite 12's and 15's which are likely a bit better than stamped frame speakers are

a 212 would be about 500 cc's

a 215 would be about 850 cc's

almost exactly half of the Kappalites

[Mike Arnopol]

Originally Posted by mbelue

I understand the frustration with repeating yourself, and I thank you for doing so.
I have a related query concerning SPL and the BigE's, how much wattage does one need before you begin to take advantage of the "vortex" technology and experience perceivable gain in volume as compared to "normal" bass cabs.

Is there a rough percentage of total wattage you can expect the "vortex" to contribute?

I have a super 12 and I love it but until I throw the megawatts at it, there isn't much benefit in spl. Clarity, extension yeah, not volume.

I guess I'm asking about efficiency. Do the larger driver cabs deliver more volume with lower wattage sources like a tube head?
Or is that reserved for the 6 and 8 driver cabs?
Or are none of them suited for legacy amps?

The Big E's are weird. At low volumes the front/vortex ratio favors the front. As power increases the vortex contributes more..

Your point is actually a good one. To me, speakers have their "sweet spot". Too little power and they don't come "alive". Which is why a single 12 cab in a low volume situation can sound a lot better than a 215 at the same volume. You start hitting the 215 with power and it really opens up. I'm not saying that the higher power speakers sound bad at low volumes---they just seem to"open up" at a certain level.

My experience is that with the Big E's they seem to open up sooner, and have a bigger range of "sweet spot" . A lot bigger.

They like a bit of power and I find them all to react kindof the same.

The Big E speakers are pretty inefficient at the lowest volumes. They gain efficiency as power increases. The vortex contributing the extra 1.5 is at higher wattage. At lower wattage the contribution is a lower percentage.

The Big E's are ultimately not more efficient than conventional boxes given the drivers we're using. We are able to get the volume and low end extension by using drivers considered too inefficient for this use. Due to the contribution of the vortex, by the time your hitting them with power they go the same volume as a 97db speaker. Maybe 98.

I've driven them to very high levels with a 150 watt hifi amp.

As far as low powered tubes---I'll have to get one here to try.
I'm thinking that 100 watts of tube power would be fine---but I have to check.