Big and loud with modest cabs: compression?

scottfeldstein · #1 08-05-2011, 09:21 AM

I'm getting back into music after some years away. My last couple of gigs were playing a relatively loud rock cover band. At that time, I used a homemade rig comprised of a Peavey power amp, a 31-band EQ and an 18 + 2x10 cab. I never lacked for a loud and full stage sound.

I'm now 43. My back isn't what it once was. I've tried a 2x10 combo plus an external 2x10 cab and found it didn't give me the tone/voume I wanted. Or it could barely do so, with little headroom.

I've changed now to a 500w head (GK MB500) and I now have a GK Neo 2x12 on order. I'm thinking that if I like the cab, I'll get a second one--or possibly a 1x15 to go with it, not sure.

It occurred to me, though, that there are other things I might do to milk this setup for every ounce of boom and volume--such as compression and careful EQing.

My amp has a Low tone control which supposedly shelves at 60hz. I could probably get away with turning it down a little from noon, but I don't want to lose all bottom end.

What about compression? If I could just prevent those big low notes from being louder than other notes, I might be able to enjoy a higher volume without risking speaker fartout. True?

Would a BBE OptoStomp help? I would like to keep the price reasonable and I don't want something I'll have to rack, if possible.

billfitzmaurice · #2 08-05-2011, 09:32 AM

A good compressor will allow you to get the most out of your rig by taming peaks that otherwise would clip both the amp and speakers. That means one with attack, ratio and release controls. One-knob wonders won't do the job.

lpdeluxe · #3 08-05-2011, 09:32 AM

The night before last I played with a loud group (two loud electric guitarists, a loud drummer) with my Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0-2x10T rig with 300 watts and 28 lb total. It took a few songs to get my EQ dialed in, but once I did, my Precision was right up there, present and warm. The key to a good bass amp is the EQ, in my opinion. I like to carve out a space for myself in the mix that allows the bass to be heard without requiring a bunch of speaker area. The other evening, that meant cutting the deep bass to get rid of the mud and boosting the mids and a little bit of treble. It really annoys me to go listen to a band and hear nothing but tubby bass and unintelligible lyrics: that's a sign that the players don't understand what they are doing.

Most rooms you'll play in will have problems with the bass frequencies, and pumping up the bottom only aggravates the issue. You can't overpower the laws of physics with wattage; you have to outwit them, instead. Back off a little -- the audience will perceive the bass as "deep" if it's present.

Russell L · #4 08-05-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

The night before last I played with a loud group (two loud electric guitarists, a loud drummer) with my Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0-2x10T rig with 300 watts and 28 lb total. It took a few songs to get my EQ dialed in, but once I did, my Precision was right up there, present and warm. The key to a good bass amp is the EQ, in my opinion. I like to carve out a space for myself in the mix that allows the bass to be heard without requiring a bunch of speaker area. The other evening, that meant cutting the deep bass to get rid of the mud and boosting the mids and a little bit of treble. It really annoys me to go listen to a band and hear nothing but tubby bass and unintelligible lyrics: that's a sign that the players don't understand what they are doing.

Most rooms you'll play in will have problems with the bass frequencies, and pumping up the bottom only aggravates the issue. You can't overpower the laws of physics with wattage; you have to outwit them, instead. Back off a little -- the audience will perceive the bass as "deep" if it's present.

+1.

It's taken me a long time to get up the nerve to stop scooping the mids as well as pumping up the lows. I now run my LMII flat and tweak it only a hair as needed, usually by boosting the low mids and cutting a tad of highs to account for playing with my fingernails. Ever since I've done all this I can hear myself when otherwise I was getting lost in the mix. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a wall of 810s, but who wants to carry heavy stuff anymore? I'm doing fine with a 112 combo and a 115 extension cab at 500w. I'd rather it were two 115s instead, though. I bet it would sound better with matching cabs, so they say.

**IvanMike** · #5 08-05-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

A good compressor will allow you to get the most out of your rig by taming peaks that otherwise would clip both the amp and speakers. That means one with attack, ratio and release controls. One-knob wonders won't do the job.

That's a good bit of advice, often you need a good comp to really use it. I'd try the EQ tricks a bit first to save cash and see what you can do. Often you need a holistic approach, where everyone in the band does some creative EQing to give every instrument a place to "live" so you don't need to turn up loud in the first place. It does wonders.

scottfeldstein · #6 08-05-2011, 10:24 AM

Clearly I'm going to have to learn a new way of doing things, thanks for the input folks.

I think I'll see how the MB500 sounds through the Neo 212 before I make any decisions. And I'll try playing it at volume while seeing what I can get out of the onboard eq. I'm prepared to sacrifice some of the lowest lows as long as I can still get a good punch out of it. Anything to avoid carrying a back-breaking, 90lb 4x10 (or worse) cab.

AwkwardLoudness · #7 08-05-2011, 11:04 AM

A good quality compressor (pedal or rack unit) helps to maximize volume and tame peaks on a solid state amp. However, it's generally unnnecessary with most tube amps since tubes have great natural compression.

MB500 is solid state, so try out some compressors.

Personally, I use an Alesis 3630 when I feel the need for a compressor. There are plenty of good compressors out there. Use one with flexibility, like Bill said, with knobs for ratio, attack, release, threshold, etc.

scottfeldstein · #8 08-05-2011, 11:30 AM

Wow, for $99 bucks the price is right. Still, it's rack. I'd have to buy rack ears for the MB500...and I've already ordered a gig bag for it...

ThudThudThud · #9 08-05-2011, 11:37 AM

I'm in a similar predicament. I can't heft 'fridges' around any more.
I have a compact 4x10 , and a rack with a pre/eq and a power amp (pre-amps on my pedal board). Stick it on a mover's dolly and it's easy to move around.

I recently acquired the Doubleback compressor from Seymour Duncan. It has a ton of clean headroom, and a nice 'doubleback' feature where you can blend in your pre-compressed signal, and mix in the highs, mids, or full frequency (switchable). I run the mids back through, and I get a great tone, with plenty of volume in a small package.

blastjv · #10 08-05-2011, 11:44 AM

FWIW, my BBE Opto Stomp works very well for what you're describing (keeping the low notes under control while remaining virtually transparent through the rest of the spectrum). I think Bill's point is a good one, though. Since the BBE is not terribly tweakable, it's a bit of a crapshoot whether it will work for you, but there are a great many people who love theirs.....so.....

-JV