Big versus Little

woody357 · #1 05-24-2011, 07:05 PM

I love the sound of my amp, (Eden wt550 with an Epi ps410) but what I am finding out is it doesn’t really matter on the gigs I’m doing. The band I play with always has PA support, and my amp is nothing more than a monitor. It is looking like all I really need is a good 1x12 cabinet. What are my fellow TBers views on this?

MuzikMan · #2 05-24-2011, 07:19 PM

With great PA support you really don't need your rig to do a whole lot as you can see. Treating your rig as a monitoring system will go a long way in making your band sound the best it can.

Bassmickeyd · #3 05-24-2011, 07:23 PM

I've been using single 12" cabinets for years. EV first now EA. Perfect on more stages with just enough bass not to get in the way of the PA.

Sundogue · #4 05-24-2011, 07:36 PM

For as much as one can rely on the PA to carry a room or outside, a PA is not for the musicians onstage (most certainly not for the bass player as monitors typically can't handle bass through them). How well you and others can hear your bass onstage is more dependent on a combination of factors, like...

The type of gigs you do, indoors or outdoors, the type of music you do and how much stage volume is required given other instrumentation, PA or not. And those things are not the same for all players.

And the type of rig you use and how you EQ it has an awful lot to do with whether or not it will interfere with, or work with, the PA. Sometimes high volume on stage isn't as much a problem as poor mid dispersion and terrible off axis response coming from a bass rig that is the REAL culprit in mud bleeding off the stage and mucking things up.

I play pretty damn loud in one band, even onstage (with the PA being louder still) and I'm pushing 800 watts through a 15/6 and yet our sound has never been better, onstage or through the PA.

Other gigs, I get by with just 300 watts into my two little 110/6 cabs, sometimes with very little PA if any. So it depends on many factors.

Selta · #5 05-24-2011, 07:38 PM

I love In-Ear monitoring. Just sayin'.

Sundogue · #6 05-24-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

I love In-Ear monitoring. Just sayin'.

Whatever works for each player is what's best.

Typically I don't feel any bass using IEM's.

If I couldn't feel it, I wouldn't play bass any longer. I like the feel of it, even on quieter gigs. But that's me.

Marko5657 · #7 05-24-2011, 09:27 PM

I recently went in-ears; not a monitor mix, just my bass in my ears.

Iow, direct box to FOH, band gets whatever they can in the monitors, and DI out to headphone amp to in-ear headphones for me.

Maybe I’m just getting old, but I like the reduced stage volume in my ears, and hearing myself clearly.

JimmyM · #8 05-25-2011, 03:07 AM

if your amp is nothing more than a monitor, then you don't need anything at all theoretically. the reason that big rigs are still commonplace even if they're only used as a monitor is because many of us like to feel that big air movement thing. i can easily do all my gigs with a tiny little cab (and have been for the past few months), but i'm probably going to go back to bigger cabs just because i like the sound better.

then again, i say that, and when it comes to gig time, i always end up reaching for the micro vr.

Wadge · #9 05-25-2011, 03:24 AM

For me it is all about going modular. For my big band gigs and wedding gigs I get usually use my GK2x10 cab with the GK MB500 head. It is small, fairly light and sounds good. If there is PA support I usually also use this set up. If it is a big stage however where I know I might stray further afar from my amp I will add a 4x10 under the 2x10 and I'm set.

woody357 · #10 05-25-2011, 10:23 AM

Like I said in the OP, i do like my sound, but if it really doesn't matter in the over all mix why carry a 410 when a 1x12 will give me stage sound?

Russell L · #11 05-25-2011, 10:51 AM

I have decided that a 112 doesn't give me what I want onstage, except for small gigs. But a 115 does, even with the same wattage. I can push the volume up more with the 15, if needed, and it doesn't clank if I slap a note as quickly as the 12. Just me.

Sundogue · #12 05-25-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody357

Like I said in the OP, i do like my sound, but if it really doesn't matter in the over all mix why carry a 410 when a 1x12 will give me stage sound?

Indeed.

Conversely, why carry a 112 if it doesn't cut it in a different situation and a 410 will?

All depends on the situation one finds themselves in.

Fuzzbass · #13 05-25-2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody357

I love the sound of my amp, (Eden wt550 with an Epi ps410) but what I am finding out is it doesn’t really matter on the gigs I’m doing. The band I play with always has PA support, and my amp is nothing more than a monitor. It is looking like all I really need is a good 1x12 cabinet. What are my fellow TBers views on this?

Even when I go through a PA, a single 12" wouldn't be enough for most gigs because I play with loud guitarists and drummers, and in one band, a loud horn section and Hammond B3. My minimum rig is a pair of 1x12 cabs or single 2x10.

If a single 1x12 is enough, I envy you!

woody357 · #14 05-25-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Indeed.

Conversely, why carry a 112 if it doesn't cut it in a different situation and a 410 will?

All depends on the situation one finds themselves in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Even when I go through a PA, a single 12" wouldn't be enough for most gigs because I play with loud guitarists and drummers, and in one band, a loud horn section and Hammond B3. My minimum rig is a pair of 1x12 cabs or single 2x10.

If a single 1x12 is enough, I envy you!

My question to you two is why wouldn't a 112 work if you are coming out of the PA? I'm not trying to be difficult, I am trying to understand. I get greead sould on stage with my set up, but I don't see where it matters other than that.I'm not letting to 410 go I'll use it on gigs without PA support. Help me understand!

MuzikMan · #15 05-25-2011, 01:41 PM

What's there to understand? You have what works for you. Others have what works for them. That's the great thing about choices

T. Alan Smith · #16 05-25-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody357

My question to you two is why wouldn't a 112 work if you are coming out of the PA? I'm not trying to be difficult, I am trying to understand. I get greead sould on stage with my set up, but I don't see where it matters other than that.I'm not letting to 410 go I'll use it on gigs without PA support. Help me understand!

Simple- stage volume. IME, a typical rock band has little knowledge of dynamics; drummers that hit too hard; guitards that turn up their 100W halfstacks to compensate. Then they both complain because they can't hear the bass guitar. I have a 2x12" rig with 500W behind it and I would still rather have a 4x10 or (better yet) a 2x15" behind me if I was to ever be in that situation again.

Sundogue · #17 05-25-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody357

My question to you two is why wouldn't a 112 work if you are coming out of the PA? I'm not trying to be difficult, I am trying to understand. I get greead sould on stage with my set up, but I don't see where it matters other than that.I'm not letting to 410 go I'll use it on gigs without PA support. Help me understand!

Because the PA isn't for the band, it's for the audience. I guess if the PA was turned around to face the band, then I probably could go direct and not even use a rig.

To match the rest of the band's onstage volume (so I and the rest of the band can hear the bass), I need 800 watts into a 15/6. That's just onstage. For the audience, out front through the PA, my bass is coming through two JBL SRX728 (dual 18) subs driven by two 4000 watt QSC power amps.

In a different band, I only need 300 watts into two 110/6 cabs and we don't even use a PA except for vocals! And that little rig not only works for onstage but carries the room by itself. Different situations.

Selta · #18 05-25-2011, 01:53 PM

I'm glad I play in an atypical metal band. On stage, our volume is very, very low. So much so that I don't even have a cab on stage. My IEMs take care of everything I need. The drummer isn't too loud, and the guitarists play through 1x12s. I can walk to another person on stage, talk in a slightly elevated voice and be heard A-OK.
This isn't everyone's situation. Not having a cab on stage won't work for most rock and metal bands. Use what works for you.

Fuzzbass · #19 05-25-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

Simple- stage volume. IME, a typical rock band has little knowledge of dynamics; drummers that hit too hard; guitards that turn up their 100W halfstacks to compensate.

That's it exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

Then they both complain because they can't hear the bass guitar.

IME that's often true for drummers. Guitards, not so much.

woody357 · #20 05-25-2011, 03:44 PM

I play in a wedding band, and yes the drummer can get loud, but the guitar player plays threw a Vox 110 combo, and just mics it, the horns and the keys are not loud. The band loves the low end and power that I bring, but I really don't see anyone in a rush to help me with it at the end of the day. We play 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hour sets, at the end of the gig I am spent!!!