Bigger Aguilar Rig or IEM w/ Smaller Rig ?

akaTRENT · #1 12-11-2010, 09:21 PM

Hey guys, I have question here and would appreciate your input.

I currently have a db412 and db751 and I love it. I used to have an ampeg svt cl and an 8x10, its safe to say I love big gear.

My band has a setup leaves me standing with an ac 30 blasting to my right, and my singer always turns it up louder than me. It effectively always drowning me out no matter how loud I crank my 751. (And no he isnt going to change the setup.)

Picture Example:

You cant really tell in this photo, but the amp is angled out toward me, and Im standing half in front of both amps if that makes sense.

I was thinking of getting a side fill 4x10 to even out my stage volume and combat the evil vox, but then it dawned on me, why not just get a 4x10 or a 2x12 with maybe a more portable ag500 head for the tone. I could then have that run into IEM's so I would always have my beloved Aguilar tone, without getting into volume wars anymore.

It wouldn't look as massive, but it would mean lighter gear and an easier setup for me. I'm also wondering if IEM's are easy to use at varying venues in place of a full rig and wedges.

What do you all think?

*Bonus points if you can figure out which famous bassist's rig is behind me...

Anarchyok · #2 12-11-2010, 10:02 PM

You couldn't swap positions with the rig? ie, his AC30 behind him, you're rig behind you?? And why not just add some IEMS to your current rig??

akaTRENT · #3 12-11-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarchyok

You couldn't swap positions with the rig? ie, his AC30 behind him, you're rig behind you?? And why not just add some IEMS to your current rig??

Nope, weve had pseudo arguments over it. Its not worth it.

And why not the current rig is mainly because of what I mentioned in the original post, plus I would also need to downsize to afford the IEMS which makes sense since now I wouldn't need to blast an amp.

Pickebass · #4 12-11-2010, 10:34 PM

I don't think you want to add more volume on the stage. It will just become louder. If you were going to add more speakers, I would suggest adding a 212 to keep the sound the same.

On the other hand, your guitar player is turning up so he can be heard over your bass. If you were to add another speaker, I think he will be louder than before. I'm not a fan of IEM, but they may be the solution. However, the real answer is to decrease the stage volume so neither one of you have to play as loud.

The rig behind you... Mark King??

akaTRENT · #5 12-11-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickebass

I don't think you want to add more volume on the stage. It will just become louder. If you were going to add more speakers, I would suggest adding a 212 to keep the sound the same.

On the other hand, your guitar player is turning up so he can be heard over your bass. If you were to add another speaker, I think he will be louder than before. I'm not a fan of IEM, but they may be the solution. However, the real answer is to decrease the stage volume so neither one of you have to play as loud.

The rig behind you... Mark King??

While I agree with the statement, my singer is deaf, and always turns back up... So I would like to play at lower volumes but its not going to happen. Plus I always use ear plugs anyway.

Basically the things that are outside of my control aren't going to change, so I want to change my setup to accommodate me.

And nice! You got it!

JimmyM · #6 12-11-2010, 10:54 PM

your singer needs to be taken out back and taught a lesson. you will never win in that situation, and your singer could so easily have everything he needed if he'd stop being a prima donna. he's got it pointed toward you so he can't hear it as well, so he turns way up. absolutely ridiculous.

that's what you call a "power play." he's trying to show you he's the important one on the stage. hey, maybe he is, but it's still a dick move.

canshaker · #7 12-11-2010, 10:56 PM

We use IEM's in FILTER, and my mix is great. Rehearsed with my other band the other day for the first time since the FILTER tour ended, and I was shocked as to how low my marked stage volume was. (Don't use IEM's in that band.)
Go for the IEM's. May I suggest UE's?

(I'm doin' a signing in their booth, at NAMM. Come by and say hi!)

akaTRENT · #8 12-11-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canshaker

We use IEM's in FILTER, and my mix is great. Rehearsed with my other band the other day for the first time since the FILTER tour ended, and I was shocked as to how low my marked stage volume was. (Don't use IEM's in that band.)
Go for the IEM's. May I suggest UE's?

(I'm doin' a signing in their booth, at NAMM. Come by and say hi!)

Im thinking of the UE 18's. Why not right? I mean it would be the same as a tube head!

DBTOYS · #9 12-11-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

It wouldn't look as massive, but it would mean lighter gear and an easier setup for me. I'm also wondering if IEM's are easy to use at varying venues in place of a full rig and wedges.

What do you all think?

*Bonus points if you can figure out which famous bassist's rig is behind me...

Some times Less is more!!!!!

akaTRENT · #10 12-11-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

your singer needs to be taken out back and taught a lesson. you will never win in that situation, and your singer could so easily have everything he needed if he'd stop being a prima donna. he's got it pointed toward you so he can't hear it as well, so he turns way up. absolutely ridiculous.

that's what you call a "power play." he's trying to show you he's the important one on the stage. hey, maybe he is, but it's still a dick move.

Honestly, we are bit image conscious about the layout, which i know is a tad silly, but he is stuck on this positioning. While I do feel it "looks" cooler, I'd rather hear myself. I love him to death but this is only thing I have a major problem with him on. i never though a 30 watt tube amp could give me so much trouble haha.

diechris · #11 12-11-2010, 11:02 PM

sometimes the issue isnt with volume its what frequencies are being used..

sadly the idea behind the over all sound of a band would lean towards the guitarist keeping his tone and the bassist finding a spot around it.

what im trying to say is that maybe you need to mess with your EQ a lot more..

im lucky in that with my 751 i really just need to set it flat.. I also dont see how that damn vox can drown out a 751 and 412 agggie when I run a 751 with a 210 212 and im up against two peavey 6505+ heads and 412 guitar cabs lol

i also dont get why you guys dont have your rig behind the right person.. that would REALLY help.. in fact you could keep everyones tone the same and still hear yourself...

you should use force... if it comes down to it... your guitar is bigger and covers more distance...

akaTRENT · #12 12-11-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canshaker

We use IEM's in FILTER, and my mix is great. Rehearsed with my other band the other day for the first time since the FILTER tour ended, and I was shocked as to how low my marked stage volume was. (Don't use IEM's in that band.)
Go for the IEM's. May I suggest UE's?

(I'm doin' a signing in their booth, at NAMM. Come by and say hi!)

Also, is it hard to get the moniter mix to the IEMs? how does that work with the sound guy. As it stands my band gets some nice gigs with some great acts, but we just have ourselves currently.

Thanks!

akaTRENT · #13 12-11-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

sometimes the issue isnt with volume its what frequencies are being used..

sadly the idea behind the over all sound of a band would lean towards the guitarist keeping his tone and the bassist finding a spot around it.

what im trying to say is that maybe you need to mess with your EQ a lot more..

im lucky in that with my 751 i really just need to set it flat.. I also dont see how that damn vox can drown out a 751 and 412 agggie when I run a 751 with a 210 212 and im up against two peavey 6505+ heads and 412 guitar cabs lol

i also dont get why you guys dont have your rig behind the right person.. that would REALLY help.. in fact you could keep everyones tone the same and still hear yourself...

you should use force... if it comes down to it... your guitar is bigger and covers more distance...

Thats the main problem, I've boosted the highs before but then I lost the nice grit I had going.
Why we don't is because my singer refuses to.

And just for the record, when I had my ampeg svt/ 8x10 it was even worse! since the ampeg sounded great but was also muddy compared to the way the aguilar can cut through a mix

canshaker · #14 12-11-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

Im thinking of the UE 18's. Why not right? I mean it would be the same as a tube head!

We all use the UE 11's, and we had the choice to pick any one. From what we heard, the 18's are cool for audiophiles, listening to music, but for stage monitoring, the 11's work better. I know of some guys (Steve Stevens, for one) that still swear by their UE 7's.

From my experience, the UE 11's are awesome. Great bass tone.

diechris · #15 12-11-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

Thats the main problem, I've boosted the highs before but then I lost the nice grit I had going.
Why we don't is because my singer refuses to.

maybe boost.... mids.... if youve been on this forum you should know we all function in the midrange

GCool · #16 12-11-2010, 11:07 PM

After playing a few shows with my IEM, I resized that I still needed a little thump behind me. So if you don't have enough now, IEM may help but you but you still will need more bass behind you!

diechris · #17 12-11-2010, 11:08 PM

oh ive ditched my ampeg 810 a while back.. that thing was the biggest let down in a big CAB...

GCool · #18 12-11-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

Also, is it hard to get the moniter mix to the IEMs? how does that work with the sound guy. As it stands my band gets some nice gigs with some great acts, but we just have ourselves currently.

Thanks!

Most place we play at just have 4 aux's .... so it sucks for me as I have to share a mix with some one.... thank god for my rig behind me other wise I would NEVER hear my self.

akaTRENT · #19 12-11-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diechris

maybe boost.... mids.... if youve been on this forum you should know we all function in the midrange

Mid boost is my tone....

For settings:
-6db Pad Jaguar or Ric 4003 (mid heavy basses AFAIC)
Gain:11 Mids: 2. Bass: 11.5 and Treble: 12! Volume ends up between 9-11.

canshaker · #20 12-11-2010, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akaTRENT

Also, is it hard to get the moniter mix to the IEMs? how does that work with the sound guy. As it stands my band gets some nice gigs with some great acts, but we just have ourselves currently.

Thanks!

That is the issue, depending on the type of gigs you are playing, and how much setup time you are allowed. We are in a fortunate position where we bring our crew and monitor board, and have it in our technical rider for the venues to have splitters for every channel.

An IEM mix can be as simple as just plugging in a wireless IEM system into the main board's monitor out. The more outs the board has, the higher the amount of individual mixes you guys can get.