Bogen Challenger amps: good buy or not so worth it?

[michael_atw]

I recently came across a modded Bogen Challenger tube amp randomly when I was searching for Fender amps - it was a 70's head that was modded with a Fender circuit and whatnot. I bidded on it merely out of curiosity but didn't win. That one was a guitar amp if I remember correctly but I searched for more Bogen Challengers and find that there are many tube and solid state that are pretty cheap. Does any one own one or have played one in the past - and what do you think about it? I see they have different models. I'm interested in a tube.

[RobJ]

Interesting, my first "PA" (and I use the term loosely) mixer/amp was a Bogen Challenger, circa 1967. They were very popular in warehouses and cab garages where I grew up, usually paired with EV PA30AT horns mounted in the rafters. I had no idea guys were modding these things for use as guitar and bass amps.

[crentest]

sure, all (or most of) the parts you need to build or mod.
some sound good as is too!

[Bassman822]

Be sure to look only for tube models. The solid state ones are a POS

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Bassman822

Be sure to look only for tube models. The solid state ones are a POS

I figured. It seems like most of the old SS amps, regardless of model don't get good reviews.

I listened to some youtube posts, they don't sound too bad and I see them going for $50-$100. I forgot what the mod was on the one I was bidding on, I think it was a Blackface Bassman circuit and it had a Tweed mod or something too.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Bassman822

Be sure to look only for tube models. The solid state ones are a POS

The tube versions were no prize either. Avoid.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The tube versions were no prize either. Avoid.

Are they worth picking up for a project mod? What would you say they sound like?

[edbass]

I'm pretty sure that Terry Kath regularly used a Bogen as a pre into a Dual Showman, probably most notably the "25 or 6 to 4" solo.
They're cheap enough, why not give it a shot and see what happens?

[Jerrold Tiers]

I recall working on the original ones, not modded.....

Don't bother.......... They are built cheap, and were intended to drive a raft load of little ceiling speakers. Not very good, didn't need to be. low end? NOT.

Buy a behringer..... it's bound to be better.

[KramerBassFan]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

The tube versions were no prize either. Avoid.

But THEY HAVE TUBES AND ARE OLD... surely they MUST be good???

Reminds me of this craze where old Silvertone, Valco, etc amps are going for $500 and $600 and more.... Magnatones, i can understand.... but some of these, Really?

[lowend1]

Maybe not for bass, unless you get one of the 100-watters with 6L6s or 6550s. The smaller ones make a great platform for hot-rodded guitar amps though. I've had many of those old PA amps over the years - still have two. I used to find them for 5-10 bucks at rummage sales on a regular basis.

[monkeyking]

It's a good idea to keep in mind here that these amps are for P.A., as in Public Address. Along with Grommes and University Sound, the Bogens were meant to drive efficient horns to send voice over a large area. My dad was in this game for decades. Any of those amps, SS or tube, could easily take 100 watts and send it through EV CDP horns to cover acres of area beautifully. Bogens and CDPs were the P.A. for nearly every major league ballpark for decades. As an instrument amp, I can't imagine a worse choice - it's just not what they were meant to do.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by edbass

I'm pretty sure that Terry Kath regularly used a Bogen as a pre into a Dual Showman, probably most notably the "25 or 6 to 4" solo.

He used it on 'Free Form Guitar', basically as a fuzztone, the one use that it excelled at. I didn't see him ever use it live. Bogen PAs were intended for true PA use, 'Public Address', as in factories and 'attention KMart shoppers'. This was before true power amps like QSC and PA mixers existed. We used Fender heads for PA, and they worked a lot better than anything from Bogen.

[thumpbass1]

I use an old 60 watt, all tube Bogen p.a. head that a local church was gonna toss. It does pretty well for a lower wattage bass head. It's got a 12ax7, 12dw7, into two 8417 power tubes circuit path.

[steve_rolfeca]

Speaking as a long-time modder, anything with tubes in it, is a potential musical instrument amp project. It's really all about the chassis, the transformers and the tube sockets- virtually everything else gets tossed anyway.

That said, the tube Bogens were mostly low wattage, and the xformers weren't brilliant. Just weigh one in your hand, then compare it to a B-15 or a V-4B. Tells you all you need to know about the transformers in the Bogen.

They make a so-so guitar amp after modding, but not much more. I wouldn't want one for bass.

[BassmanPaul]

Bogen made amp for office building public address systems. The transformers were sized on the small size as befits the vocal range they were designed to reproduce. They could be rebuilt with better parts and circuitry to adequately perform as a guitar amp. For bass not so much.

[Jim C]

I have a Bogen power amp (2 - 6L6's) that was the public addrees amp for a defense contractor in the 60's. We used this to drive a single Voice of the Theater cab as a rehearsal PA and the tone was very good (just vocals). Still have the amp and it works fine; doesn't look like a screw has ever been turned. I would estimate it weighs at least 40 lbs. My experiences were clearly different than many of yours.

[michael_atw]

Hmm...maybe I should get one just for a megaphone amp when I play Pink Floyd covers of Animals and The Wall

[lowend1]

Not all Bogens were PA amps. They also produced a hi-fi line. You will note that the DB20DF, pictured below has decent iron and a useable tube complement, along with a unique damping control. While it aint no SVT, with a little luv, it is not far off from a B15-style head for the studio.

[Jim C]

Sound as good as it looks?