Boutique amps vs old faithful for touring/full time work

Chriso21 · #1 11-17-2011, 08:47 AM

I have been running a hiwatt custom 200 head and a 410/115 combined cab for about 5 years now. Been proud to fly the UK flag wherever possible and its nice to have something different on stage. I am in a signed band that has toured all over the usa coast to coast this year, and a week in Alaska. I have always been happy with the tone but I am considering changing it up to an svt cl /mesa 400+/810 setup for a few reasons:

1) we are starting to travel to shows/tours and forced to use rental gear - no one has hiwatt
2) my stack is three or four times as expensive as a mesa/ampeg setup - I could have lasik eye surgery with the $ left over (contact lens removal when drunk in a van is a pain)
3) Can I get just as good a tone out of an "old Faithfull"
4) A small company like hiwatt almost certainly has little to no support to keep my amp running on the road
5) My amp has popped tubes almost every tour - maybe because it only uses 4 power tubes, more stress? This last time the ohmage selector died.
6) My cab is in a heavy flight case so its REALLY heavy, i could use an svt 810 with no flight case and just replace it every 2 years for $500 and save all of us a hernia.

Any thoughts people?

Mr. Foxen · #2 11-17-2011, 09:17 AM

Properly made and maintained Hiwatt should be easily more reliable than an Ampeg or Mesa. If you are renting, different issue. 4x10+1x15 cab sounds far from ideal though, there's a ton about mixing speakers about, and the dodgy impedance from that could be all of your unreliability problem. Properly done nice cab, be lighter, and easier on your head. Barefaced Super 15 springs to mind cause I have one and run it with vintage valve amps.

JimmyM · #3 11-17-2011, 10:01 AM

From a practicality standpoint it does make sense to use an SVT rig. Respect to Mr. Foxen, but he is mistaken when he says Hiwatt is easily more reliable than Mesa or Ampeg. I think they're all pretty reliable...it's tubes that aren't as reliable as they used to be. Small price to pay for that sound, though

hennessybass · #4 11-17-2011, 10:23 AM

Funny, I have a vintage Hiwatt 200 (in almost mint condition). I love playing it, but don't do nearly as much work on the road as you. Some, but not a lot. I want to do more. I have really thought about whether or not I would take that amp out with me. I would at least need to buy a road case for it, and maybe not even then.

I actually just got on TB right now to do some looking around for an SVT head and came across this thread.

As far as some of your issues:
1. I bet most of your rental stuff will be SVTs, so might be nice to own the same and get some consistency.
2. Hiwatts are expensive and hard to come by... it's kind of a player vs. collector personal choice.
3. I bet you can find good tone in another amp.
4 / 5. Support should not be an issue. Any amp tech worth a damn should be able to fix a Hiwatt. Seems like an SVT or 400+ would be no more or less reliable. Strange that you amp is breaking down that often. Jimmy might be right about tube quality. I don't think it's because there are only 4 tubes. The amp was designed that way.
6. As far as cabs, there are a lot of options out there, and you are right, you can find 8x10s on CL any time for a good price.

Going with the SVT or maybe the mesa doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Save the Hiwatt for special gigs, homecomings, etc, and have it for years to come!

will33 · #5 11-17-2011, 10:25 AM

Just from a price, availability, support aspect I think it would make total sense to move to an SVT rig for touring. They're pretty much the standard. Robust, reliable, most often requested/supplied as backline and you can get one anywhere. I'd save the boutique stuff for recording and "special gigs". Not be slamming it in and out of trucks for months at a time.

YuppyPunk · #6 11-17-2011, 10:25 AM

Why not use the Hiwatt head with an 810 and buy a microhead for a backup?

Chriso21 · #7 11-17-2011, 06:16 PM

OK,

So I will test out all possible combinations of mesa 400+, Ampeg svtcl, Hiwatt 200 and Ampeg 810s over the next 2 weeks and see what I can come up with tone wise. Thanks for the input guys.

Mr. Foxen · #8 11-17-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

From a practicality standpoint it does make sense to use an SVT rig. Respect to Mr. Foxen, but he is mistaken when he says Hiwatt is easily more reliable than Mesa or Ampeg.

It is the properly maintained part that is important. As in you know where you are with your Hiwatt. Provided backline is at the mercy of the rental company. A shiny new amp is at the first high bit of the bathtub failure curve (as in the initial manufacturing flaw breakage stage, before the unlikely to fail, which is followed by warranty run out component aging failure stage).

LowEndMan2112 · #9 11-17-2011, 06:39 PM

I'd agree with the SVT rig being practical for the touring you're doing, like mentioned above, you'll be getting them a lot when renting anyways! SVT + 810 is definitely a tried and true set up for touring, but I also agree that most amps will be on par with the others for reliability.

If you have the cash to spare, why not keep the Hiwatt head for recording? They're sweet sounding, tough to come by and keeping it for recording and the odd gig will keep it in better shape!

Chriso21 · #10 11-17-2011, 06:49 PM

mmm. I might just do that. Would be sweet to have lasik too though. How much do you think I could realistically sell my hiwatt stack (with full flight cases) for? I live in Texas. Can't really be shipped. Would hate to be stuck with the cab. I'll sell it on here and take out an ad if I do sell it.

Planning on having a full day testing out all the options tomorrow - borrowing a buddies ampeg 810.

Chriso21 · #11 11-17-2011, 06:56 PM

Should I consider Ampeg VR in the equation or are they less likely to have them at rental companies?

Marko5657 · #12 11-17-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

…and a 410/115 combined cab…

Are you saying the four 10”s and 15” are in one cab?

Just curious what that is…

nysbob · #13 11-17-2011, 07:15 PM

The VR is probably sonically a little closer to your Hiwatt. The CLs have all the grunt but a tad less sparkle.

If you're dealing with backlines, be prepared for either.

johnk_10 · #14 11-17-2011, 07:43 PM

personally, i prefer the VR over the CL. IME, the CL is a bit more compressed (stuffy) sounding.

georgestrings · #15 11-17-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriso21

I have been running a hiwatt custom 200 head and a 410/115 combined cab for about 5 years now. Been proud to fly the UK flag wherever possible and its nice to have something different on stage. I am in a signed band that has toured all over the usa coast to coast this year, and a week in Alaska. I have always been happy with the tone but I am considering changing it up to an svt cl /mesa 400+/810 setup for a few reasons:

1) we are starting to travel to shows/tours and forced to use rental gear - no one has hiwatt
2) my stack is three or four times as expensive as a mesa/ampeg setup - I could have lasik eye surgery with the $ left over (contact lens removal when drunk in a van is a pain)
3) Can I get just as good a tone out of an "old Faithfull"
4) A small company like hiwatt almost certainly has little to no support to keep my amp running on the road
5) My amp has popped tubes almost every tour - maybe because it only uses 4 power tubes, more stress? This last time the ohmage selector died.
6) My cab is in a heavy flight case so its REALLY heavy, i could use an svt 810 with no flight case and just replace it every 2 years for $500 and save all of us a hernia.

Any thoughts people?

Yeah - why would you be "proud to fly the UK flag wherever possible", while living in Texas??? Seems kind of stupid to me, tbh...

- georgestrings

Chriso21 · #16 11-17-2011, 11:18 PM

Marko - yeah its 410 on top and 115 on the bottom. One big coffin surrounded by a custom built flight case. I think its made of birch too so its a heavy bastard!

CUSTOM

George - I am from England and moved to Texas 4/5 years ago and have some weird patriotic attitude that may have developed from all the "1812" jokes - who knows?. I don't know, I just wanted to try and be different in some way, i guess. Since I moved to Texas I have never seen anyone else with my setup - never. However, in the UK, its almost the same price to buy a hiwatt as it is an ampeg/mesa, so it seemed like a good investment and rather than selling it before I immigrated, I figured I would flight case it up and fly it over.

I'll let you guys know what I find out. Will try an ampeg svt cl, ampeg vr, and mesa 400+ with an ampeg 810 next to my hiwat 410/115 in my living room and let you know what I find out. Watch this space!

Chriso21 · #17 11-17-2011, 11:19 PM

why did it put the word custom like that in my last post?

JimmyM · #18 11-17-2011, 11:31 PM

That's the name of the page you linked.

You will find more CL's than VR's in backline rental world, but I wouldn't necessarily use that as my decision maker. I think your listening party is the way to go.

chadds · #19 11-18-2011, 09:03 AM

About gear though, use what brings your sound. Reliability is very important. On one hand I'd keep my Hiwatt home. On another I use my gear.
If one can afford it there is road house gear and pristine gear you'd use in an Opera hall. I play both types of gigs.

Blankandson · #20 11-23-2011, 06:30 PM

Based upon working with about 15 bands so far in 2011: most guitarist I've miced are using boutique - Divided by Thirteen is very popular currently. Country groups tend to take the old-looking Fender tube amps but they get the job done. BUT almost 90% of the bass players have brought an Ampeg HLF4X10 cab and an Ampeg 3-PRO amp head. Many have no pedals. I usually use a SM58 for everyone and have had no problems. All sound very good. I always tell the young dudes "if you make your house payment playing bass get an Ampeg".